No I don't think the Democratic Party Craps Rainbows

I believe both parties to be deeply corporate. I believe people on both coasts are sleeping in cars and flop houses I have relatives in both and here in the midwest with the great eviction car living is becoming a norm again as homeless shelters fill up. Labor Force Participation Rate dropping, Debt coming due, trade issues, cities on fire, black vs white, shortages in goods due to Chinese influence. You pretend to pay the American worker he pretends to work. Nobody can save us from being sold out to china by the corporate types unless both parties every last American rebuilds this. I know you don’t wanna live in new new Mexico but American families like my can only afford one child. You have to have an America we can afford to live in, otherwise other cultures take over it. My family pulls in 24k pretax 30k after tax (EITC) Medicaid can’t pay for my back surgery I can’t keep building you equity. Nixon based the currency on Fiat not us. Index the wages to the original 1968 Minimum Wage, Healthcare for All. Obamacare was cooked up by the heritage foundation in 1988 as an alternative to true universal healthcare. We fight your wars, we detail your cars, we stock shelves, we door dash you, people of the suburbs the reason people aren’t working is because you are not paying what it takes to get by in this modern economy. This will lead to Spanishization and Chinese influence in America both parties are guilty to ears. The nolabels pac working with the Lincoln project to fight populism on both sides.

First, I’ll qualify a bit

There’s certain types of policy we shouldn’t give to them, like our stance on Taiwan, the Koreas, and the South China Sea. Or you know, Organ harvesting. Anything we do to weaken in those environments should be discouraged & questioned.

With that said; If we’re speaking to economics, I’m going to have to disagree.

On the supply chain, for hard-to-find materials what happened was going to happen anyway. Either because the materials were native to China to begin with, or that we simply transitioned to other countries to fix the shortages. In many cases we’re still sourcing from China, just with another country between us.

When it comes to Manufacturing, I’ll point out that it never shrank in America. We produce 35% more cars than we did in the 1990s.

What did shrink was the number of jobs per factory, and with it, the total number of Americans working in manufacturing. A factory that employed 20,000 in the 1960s, would employ barely 200 today. More likely <150.

As this automation boom occurred, America failed to ensure the rust belt and interior parts of the country could transition to other types of economic output. Or go the German model, and find ways to produce more valuable goods that could push our manufacturing higher up the value chain.

Germany did not see their exports fall after China entered the WTO; it grew. Their success and those who followed similar paths, proves that wherever in our country we experienced stagnation or deindustrialization, it was our own fault.

China wasn’t going to not grow, or not develop, or not catch up, we needed to develop ourselves to stay on top, and rush further ahead.

Not build the same widgets, the same way for 40 years and pretend “that’s good enough”, and get angry when China makes it for 1/4 the cost and takes both our external and internal customers.

Oh btw, I work in manufacturing. I chose these jobs, and their low pay, even when most Americans didn’t give a crap. Most of my coworkers are immigrants, and I’m happy to have them.

I’d point to industry syndromes in education, housing, and healthcare. None of which are natural; we made those syndromes happen.

The syndrome of high housing costs is due to how we’ve regulated land use to eliminate middle housing and over emphasize car accessibility to everything, while punishing walking or biking.

Most live in a box in the sky, or single family detached homes. This, together with harsh zoning practices, raises prices. People with homes like this because it means their value goes up. Giving us events like that legal fight we saw in Seattle.

In education, we have a public system that sucks. It has not kept up in training a workforce relevant to the times. Unlike Germany (again), who graduates 49% of their high school kids with trade skills, so that less Germans than Americans (per person) ever feel the need to go to or graduate from college (despite subsidizing it to the point it’s almost free).

Of course, college has its own bubble, brought on by subsidies, student loans that colleges simply rake in for themselves, and the inability for students to declare bankruptcy. And the fact that colleges act as remedial high school, because again, our public high schools suck.

Finally, healthcare. The mother of all clusters ****s

I could mentioned a dozen different ways why prices keep rising in that industry, even when other consumer goods or even consumer healthcare services fall.

The 1960s coding system everyone has to use, Certificate-of-need laws, Fee-for-service models, "corporate practice of medicine” , AMA Scope clauses, the multitude of State-bans (until COVID) of telemedicine, State mandates, State insurance cartelization, bans on prepaid group plans, FDA standards of drug efficacy over individual biology, etc.

Well, I got to 10.

Btw, it’s odd to me you bright up connecting money to fiat, and then say “not being paid enough”.

Shouldn’t you mention the reason the former is a problem, is due to how it undercuts money’s value?
Which is more important than simply what you’re paid?

Past eras used deflation to prosper. The current fiat system robbed us of that, intentionally, because deflation was blamed for the Great Depression. Which itself forgets that there’s two type of deflation, and we definitely should like the supply-side version of it.

Trump talked about clamping down on China and re-negotiating bad trade deals that hurt American workers. Was it the right approach? The issues are complex, and I am on an iPad typing with one finger.

Classic economic theory says that everyone Is better off with no tariffs and trade restrictions. Countries end up making the goods they produce best and import the goods they can’t make as well. It’s called “competitive advantage.” It’s a good theory, but some people will get hurt, and politicians get in the way. Add to that, the large corporations that are making huge profits from special trade deals, who have bought their government influence, and the application gets muddled.

I wish I had an easy solution for middle class people, who lack marketable skills, but I don’t. This is why you go to trade schools and college. If you waste your college time earning degrees that can’t earn you a living and end up with a mountain of college debt, you start off behind.

I have relatives who are carving out careers in fields other than their college majors. That takes hard work and a willingness to learn new skills. I hope that it works for them. It has in one case for a niece who got a PhD in the health care administration field. She worked as a professional stage manger in the theater before she settled down with that career. I have another niece who is making a 6 figure salary in the product distribution field. That major didn’t exist when I was in college.

I got a B.S. in accounting and an MBA. It earned me a good living, gave me some investing skills and left me well off, but it was not my primary interest. I love history and economics. If I had had my way, I would gone for graduate degrees in economics, but it was probably just as well that I didn’t. At the end of my working years, I was a coin dealer for 12 years. I loved that job. I was lucky.


The basic truth of the matter remains; tariffs only hurt you, they don’t help.

What matters in manufacturing is value, not price. The same good at a lower price is a better value. To compete with that, you either make a more valuable good, or invent a process to make the good more efficiently.

Manufacturing tends to be the former, farming tends to go the latter.

Tariffs do nothing to instantiate value. It doesn’t make the good better performing, it doesn’t make your process more efficient.

It just invites complacency and obsolescence within your industries; which is the story of most manufacturing in Brazil and Italy who tried to use tariffs to dissuade imports.

And the unfortunate reality is that we’ve undervalued trade skills for decades. Told people they were losers if they didn’t go to college.

In one of the few times I do this, I applaud an attempt of Google’s to circumvent this cultural addiction.

Really hope this approach catches on.

You will note that I never said that I supported protective tariffs. They distort the market and are subject to political forces that work to give advantages to those in power.

Back in the 19th century, tariffs were the main source of revenue for the U.S. Government. You can argue about the sources of the money for the government, but it the end, government must be funded somehow. The ideal solution is to find ways to fund the government that disrupt markets the least, but politics is often not interested in that solution. The Whigs and the Republicans supported the protective tariffs. The Democrats ran on “for revenue only” partly because their base of support was in the South, and the southerners didn’t like to pay higher prices for imported goods or pay higher prices to northern producers, who took advantage of the tariffs and charged higher prices.

@Alaska_Slim If we had a stronger dollar we wouldn’t need raises but the point is not only was it brought down to Fiat, but it was never indexed to 1968. I’ve read The Road to Serfdom, I’ve heard it all I’d never thought I’d see a conservative promoting NotJustBikes ie StrongTowns. I see bullcrap everywhere and I don’t see a central government holding these states together. You have many states legalizing pot in violation of Gonzalez vs Raich, soon your gonna see abortion policy differ, monetary policy differ, and not being united is really going to allow the Chinese to move forward. How the hell can we defend Taiwan if we won’t help Cuba when they were protesting Pat Buchanan asked this. Secondly you have such American eyes they’ve already won debt diplomacy cracking the 5 eyes with network infrastructure, reverse engineering our tech, I’d love to hold Taiwan the semiconductor industry there alone would be worth it but the police can barely hold the streets, were fat overweight and Broke because we turned on each other 50-50. It’s my last Hail Mary to try to seed a future where both sides cooperate.

They have a good point; we used regulations to instantiate preferences into law.

This warped the market, making us overbuild housing that is too expensive for most people to buy, and made personal transportation hard or impossible for those who are poor; hurting social mobility.

And it’s a preferences insisted on by a network of interests connected to real estate. Any economist worth their salt would object to this.

Now, I don’t like insisting on trains vs long-range or street corner charter busing. Trains are far more expensive to buy and operate, require a larger, more exclusive footprint, and are far harder to build extensions onto or to change routes. Bussing is more flexible on all counts, and take better advantage of the infrastructure we already have.

I would also caution against compelling density vs just lifting the regulations that have created sprawl, as the former has its own problems.

And guns, and immigration, but I don’t see how monetary would change.

States cannot make their own currency, and they don’t have control over Federal printing presses.

We will however see a world with monetary realities that is closer to what F.A. Hayek wanted; one without a government monopoly, thanks to cryptocurrencies.

Because we have ahem history about trying to help revolts in Cuba, whereas with Taiwan, it’s simply preventing an invasion.

The Geography of the strait actually makes that pretty straightforward. There are islands close to the mainland we couldn’t help, but Taiwan itself is very securable.

Oh heck no, what happened in Malaysia proves everyone is aware of their loan-shark ways, and is willing to call them on it.

China also needs Dollars to finance much of their Belt & Road projects (contractors don’t like the RMB much), and they’re running out.

They are also extremely in debt themselves, and are using it to build not useful things but 100s of Ghost cities whose only value is to serve as investment properties that most in China can’t afford.

The implicit CCP promise of prosperity to the Chinese people is unraveling for structural reasons owing to the controls they place on their economy. Billionaires are leaving, so is foreign capital.

They’ve had Russian jet engines for over 30 years, they still can’t reproduce them. Meaning all of their carrier-borne aircraft, have to be powered by Russian engines, who police quiet severely what the Chinese are doing with them.

They’ve also tried to reverse engineer Taiwan’s chip industry, with help of some engineers who come from there… they wasted billions and failed.

Beyond a certain point, technology requires not just blueprints but a perfect storm of capital, trial & error, and talent. China wants to recreate the success we’ve had with silicon valley, but industries there are stuck in their copy-pasta ways, and don’t gather the same foreign attention.

Now, I’m not saying any of this to imply don’t be worried about our own internal divisions; just that, China has its own problems (demography anyone?) which point to their future being… not great.

We also have a partner, that’s also a rising economy in the area; India, who challenges the CCP’s notions that Asian populations can’t be managed as a democracy. India is more than willing to fight the CCP, as is Japan; the latter which is building the biggest ships they’ve had since WWII.

The 1st Island chain will fight for itself, even if we don’t fight for it. Which I’m pretty sure we will, just because we always have a carrier task force located in the area. Also the Marines are stationing themselves across islands there. Hard to not fight if our own people are in the way, and are coming under fire.

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you won, this debate, now I simply ask how do working families who are working poverty wages in the midwest get ahead (I don’t think you see a solution either)? Who’s feet do we hold to the fire, how can we utilize what we have here to our advantage? You seem to have moved pass Hayek and neoliberalism if you understand Strongtowns (notjustbikes). Your party seems struck between faux populism, neoliberalism and protectionism with a hint of conspiracy hysteria but you seem to be on footing. I’m pretty sure the state of your party even vexes you. The only thing that got me a home was a bad economy in 2011, using leverage to the point of blackmail, and taking advantage of low interest rates. Arguably it was the most “Vulture-Capitalist” moment of my life. I don’t wanna get even or wealthy like that I’d rather be poor.

Upzoning I think is an easy mention here. Strongtowns talks of reversing rules that require large roads, and creating walk-friendly atmospheres in both towns and neighborhoods. And allowing light industrial businesses near residential areas.

This has both knock-on economic effects, and strengthens communal ties. It makes people more willing and able to “hang out”, and for people to walk or bike to work if need be.

Less dependence on cars, more being actual neighbors to each other. Win-win.

To improve economic outlooks overall, I would ask how do you attract skilled workers, or businesses to employ them?

COVID has given the midwest an advantage there; telecommuting and remote work has become far more widely accepted, so people are opting to live in cheaper, less urban areas while doing work for the more urban areas.

Web service would be a weakness to this idea, but Starlink is fixing that. Two, three years from now when it’s fully up and running, you’ll have floods of emigrants from the coastal areas moving inward. Which means more economic activity, more exploration about what sorts of businesses can exist there, more opportunity for you or any of your family who work.

Other things to explore are lowering State taxes in nonurban areas to attract businesses there, and copying the success of the Dutch in how they created the Silicon Valley of Agriculture, which the Midwest should be able to emulate (It’s also the place notjustbikes# loves to make comparisons to, how about that?).

As to Healthcare; push to weaken state mandates. Allow people in your state to buy across state lines so they can find the best deal. Look for businesses that operate more like the Oklahoma Surgery Center, and change laws (if barriers exist) to allow more to operate that way. If there’s any certificate-of-need laws in your state; overturn them. All of this would lower prices for both care and insurance greatly.

Not at all. Regulations distorting markets is something no Austrian would be a fan of. Mentioning Houstoun which levies far fewer restrictions on land use (though not none), is very much a talking point among them for how to keep housing prices stable.

Much better than say, rent-control, which is known to cause gentrification, and limits housing construction. Or other “speculation” controls.

For instance, Tokyo, Japan has had stable housing prices for 20 years. This even though they are more crowded than Seoul, right across the sea, which has one of the hottest real estate markets in the world.

And they do it through flexible land use. WSJ brought this up, same to Forbes and The Federalist.

Very true. And democrats are stuck between Socialist populism, Neo-marxists, and a handful of blue dogs who say “wait, neither of those things would work.” And of course, Pelosi-esce kleptocrats who just wind-vane there way through everything, and put symbolism above effective policy. Symbols are cheaper I suppose.

It strikes me that as much as they complain (rightly) about immigration, they don’t offer real solutions. They just look for exceptions to be made, rather than changing the system to allow for higher levels of legal immigration.

Your ideas for Healthcare are quite possibly the worst idea’s I’ve heard of fixed price surgeries yeah but they are still out of reach for most Americans. How about 2.5x your yearly annual income not to die (heat transplant)… sounds like a really bad idea. How can France do these surgeries for 1/5th of the cost? Universal Healthcare. One time I heard a conservative say the only way to bring down the cost of college is to stop the DOE from issuing insane amounts of Financial Assistance Loans, it would break their bottom line over night. I was like yeah that’s what France did to the doctors. Did you know that colleges only graduate 15 out of 100 students. I’ve seen people spend 4 years there with no degree and a decent GPA because of department heads feeling their “not a good fit”. If you think we have Neo-Marxists please tell me where are the folks asking to seize the means of production and talking about 5 year plans. Please show me just show me the Neo-marxists and socialists please 5 year plans point them out, point out the violent overthrow of the aristocracy by elected federal officials. You can’t because it’s hyperbole. It’s like me saying republicans not only want to outlaw abortion but if anyone has one their gonna shove it back inside and cuff the lady down for 9 months its simply not true. There are marxist groups in America but they are not even advocating overthrowing the means of production usually ideological grifters selling bumper stickers like how the Michigan Milita/ 3percents etc does that to the far right. Everything else you mentioned was somewhat rational in regards to zoning. I don’t think a single democrat I know cares about red tape. Most of the red tape I’ve encountered in my state was from LARA and was put there by larger businesses to lock small ones out. I just ignored the red tape and made cash under the table. As long as your pay your taxes with an W4 they never crack down on a home business. My problem was I moved to a zip code where I swear the only other honest computer tech lives couldn’t compete he was established… had lots of clients had to shut down. What at your core you fail to understand the working poor depend on that crappy medicaid and half funded food stamps to pay the utitilities and the mortgage your party is always cutting and underfunding that crap and putting stipulations at the state level and we still don’t break even. I had a talk last week about moving out on the road because we might not be able to make in a couple of years. I had a friend work at San Berindino Target slept in his van that was his reality… one day somethings going to give for those folks.

I’m laying out market basics.

If you want recursive trends where prices fall, and quality increases year after year, you need competition, you need transparent prices, you need people spending money as if its their own (even if its not) and you need people making choices as to what they want, and what they don’t.

If you obfuscate any of these points, the market then has to abstract methods around the obstacles, and that increases costs.

Your industry can also fall into regulatory capture, where prices are increased or kept high intentionally by providers. Just like it was with the airlines in the 1970s, just as it is with many ISPs today.

We right now, do not have a nationally integrated insurance market. We have 50 insurance markets, cartelized within themselves, many with only one or two providers who certainly act in ways we can describe as a oligopoly.

No other industry in America works this way, all others are allowed to work across state borders. Did you ever ask why this difference exists?

It’s certainly not something markets do on their own.

France’s system is not doing great. Simply put, it wasn’t sustainable.

Paying mostly empty taxis to circulate to rural areas? Paying for maternity wards that are only used a few times a year? Spa treatments as “preventable care”?

France “did it”, by going into debt until more debt wouldn’t pay for more. An aging population and rampant diabetes has now emptied the coffers, and their system’s capacity to treat people is degrading.

There is a lack of personnel. To save money, the government is reducing the number of beds and the number of doctors. There have been deaths because of it.

BTW, it’s the rural periphery in France, the place like that you seem to live in, who is hit by these shortages the most.

Okay, nationalizing things is what the squad advocates for pretty consistently. Bernie Sanders wanted this in the 1970s, and wants this today for the energy sector.

In the upper northeast, you have openly socialist people running for Mayor and Governorships.

Northwest too. (She was endorsed personally by Bernie, he even went there to stump for her.)

So, pretty sure I’m describing them not with epithets, but how they describe themselves or their policies.

Sarah Innarone’s own support for Marxists gets rather contorted as to what she thinks she’s doing, but she clearly aligns her thinking with them, as her own campaign manager self-identified as one.

Living in the Midwest you may feel divorced from what the mostly coastal franchisees of the Democrat brand are doing, but they none the less exist.

Barack Obama talked about licensing, how it’s overgrown, and tied the hands of poor people from helping themselves. Sadly, that was towards the end of his 2nd term, and he didn’t do much about it.

Democrats really should be able to have this conversation, given that Jimmy Carter is the one we have to thank for deregulating Telecom, Airlines, and Busing.

I used to work for an air freight forwarding company, based on how their situation evolved, I can definitely say this changed things for the better.

If we had a public medical health insurance / payment system alongside the private one that worked like food stamps, I’d be fine with that.

Means tested, you treat it like your own money, and we don’t create a parallel healthcare system but simply give the vulnerable access to the same system everyone else uses.

And FTR, there a few countries who models their healthcare to do exactly this. Ones that have (unlike France) proven to be sustainable, with costs rising at the level of a 3rd world country, despite having some of the oldest populations in the world.

And here are those countries as identified by the Bloomberg health index.

Their public housing system is top notch in one of them too.

@Alaska_slim okay I’d vote for you. Your policies sound human yet sustainable. Transparent prices are needed one surgery can cost 20k at one hospital and 10k at another. I goto a Catholic Hospital here in town a health pavilion. We have a Level II trauma center deep in the city about 15 miles out. We used to have a separate birthing hospital but it was in a bad neighborhood and became a psych unit. I’m not rural or urban I’m in a suburb on the North Side of Muskegon. I can opt for gigabite internet. I’ve seen several national acts in Grand Rapids. I saw Bush (band) before Coronavirus at the county fair. I can take a train stay in Chicago and ride around the Metra for a couple of days if I had the cash. Bernie was a socialist in the 80s I believe he went to the USSR for his honey moon that’s the only thing I saw that was verifiable. I swear Bernie is left wing Trump. Personally I like Elizabeth Warren.

Bernie Sanders a self-described socialist. Elizabeth Warren lied about her heritage, American Indian, to drum up more votes. I have a lot more Native American blood in me than she does, but I’d never have the stones to claim it for a quota benefit. Warren is an elitist Harvard professor who has no idea what your problems are. She only wants power and money, like the rest of the Democrat elite. Her idea of relating to working people was the line, “Let me go grab me a beer!” on video chat site.

These Democrat leaders are like all of the other leftist who take over countries. They get rich; you get poor. They eat cake; you get the crumbs.

Castro, Chavis, Maderno, Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, Hillary Clinton, Barak Obama. They are all cut from the same cloth. They tell you what you want to hear to enrich themselves.

Look at Obama. He’s a got multi-millionaire’s estate on Martha’s Vineyard that looks like something the Rockefellers would build. Yet, he’s “the great leveler.” Don’t be a sap.

If you think that the Democrats are going to give you more think again. They are geared toward their new conquest, which is making the illegals that are crossing the southern border into citizens who will vote for them. The Democrats don’t give a rat’s tail about you and your problems.

If anything the millions of illegals are going to make it harder for low skilled workers. If they choose to work, the numbers of them will dilute the labor market and drive down wages. Don’t think that a minimum wage will prevent that. All that will do will make more people unemployable. If they earn anything, it will be under the table.

With all of his faults, Trump had one thing right. Employment was up; wages were up; and more people, including minorities were doing well. Then Covid ruined it all. It got the Democrats elected, and people started thinking the Democrats would give them a free ride. Now we are on the downward spiral with limited hope of stopping it.

I know you don’t like my message, but it’s the truth. Somebody has to produce the goods and services. Not everyone can sit on their butts and collect from those who produce.

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A lot of Bernie supporters were not socialists/communists, they were working class union stiffs in the Rust Belt. When Bernie endorsed Hillary in '16 nearly half of the crowd walked out … most of them are MAGA now.



Big difference, Trump earned it by building things, not a shakedown artist AKA community organizer.

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Yep, @Gene, don’t be a sap. The Democrats are out for you. They deep sixed Bernie on you, and said you weren’t happy with them. You don’t like capitalism and yet the leaders of the Democratic Party are the biggest political entrepreneurs on the planet.

While you are at it, why don’t you post pictures of the Clinton and Obama compounds in New York and Martha’s Vineyard. There is lots of conspicuous consumption there too. And having grown up in Rehoboth Beach area, I can tell you property there is not cheep. A small piece of land under shack sells for $1 million. That’s one of Biden’s homes along with the one he has in Wilmington.


@Sendgop Obama messed up bad hit Julian Assange with the episonage act and forced Snowden into exile. destroyed press freedoms. Recycled a 1988 Heritage Foundation talking point that became RomneyCare on a national level which actually is the reason my wife is alive right now. I gotta thank him that I didn’t go bankrupt over my wife’s surgery back in 2013, other than that he was infinitely better than any before him or after him but he still was short of everything I expected. Switzerland was going to get Bush on War crimes, and he told them to stand down. He did pardon Bradley Manning in his last days maybe those were his true colors. He kept both wars going full steam but Ron Paul said that Foreign policy does not change from administration to administration. I really wanted a single payer option like in Canada or France, we got a hybrid model that is super expensive and doesn’t actually help people live longer it;s like bankruptcy insurance. The Bankruptcy reform Bush hit us with was the single worst thing since Ronald broke the Unions. I view Clinton as an extension of the Neoliberalism of the 80s so you can own him. Economically were not going to agree. If you go too far left you get San Fransisco (homeless, hypodermics in the street) too far right you get Alabama (illiterate, obese). I think Maryland (All Payer Medicaid) and Vermont run things financially well. Listen imagine I am Rep Peter Defazio that’s who you’re talking to socially centrist, economically left straight white Christian (Methodist) male from Michigan’s west coast.

@akaOldDog that would describe Bernie to a T. He was a game changer like Trump willing to take a bullet to do it his own way like Trump. Lotta Bernie people went MAGA, I’d say about a third. I voted Green that year in Michigan stupidest mistake of my life.