Obama Center Right?


#1

It always amazes me when European Socialists or Far Left Liberals call Obama Center Right.

Can someone help me understand this phenomenon?


#2

Such things cause my BS meter to be overloaded.


#3

Yes, the is easy and in fact that is being bantered around now by the media. This is what is known a “propaganda” Hitler and Nazi Ger used it exceptionally will on the Ger people, so did USSR. While it travels outside of the country, its PRIMARY purpose is for the people. Propaganda is quite powerful and its basis is the ‘power of suggestion’, it works amazing well and the reason why is twofold:

  1. What is seen, cannot be unseen

  2. What is heard cannot be unheard

You read or hear something and that is now set in your mind. Unless the opposing information is overwhelming you will continue to beleive as its what you heard first, came from a source such as govt or media and you will hang on to it.

‘Romney will take away your food stamps if elected’ Today you can ask those who are using food stamps if that is true and most likely in most cases they will say that…in spite of Romney never saying such a thing.

Propaganda is based upon mostly half-truths. Out and out lies are generally easy to disprove, but half-truths are quite difficult because its based upon true statements.


#4

If you consider right wing to be fascism, then it would be true.


#5

Obama Center Right?

:coffee_spray: :coffee_spray: :coffee_spray: :coffee_spray: :coffee_spray: :coffee_spray: :coffee_spray: :coffee_spray:


#6

This basically. Europe has more experience with Hitler and Mussolini and Franco on the far right, and Stalin and Lenin on the far left. If you treat these as extremes, then yeah, you might see Obama in the center right. And you can compare him to European politicians who are even more left than Obama, and then you look at the right political parties in England or France and how mild they are in comparison to here, and you can see how someone might say Obama is center right.


#7

[quote=“Trekky0623, post:6, topic:37590”]
This basically. Europe has more experience with Hitler and Mussolini and Franco on the far right, and Stalin and Lenin on the far left. If you treat these as extremes, then yeah, you might see Obama in the center right. And you can compare him to European politicians who are even more left than Obama, and then you look at the right political parties in England or France and how mild they are in comparison to here, and you can see how someone might say Obama is center right.
[/quote]Hitler on the far right, what have you been smoking? No wonder you are a lefty, history is beyond you. Facts seem to be the antithesis of thought with you. Next you will tell me Hitler did not murder millions and he was a christian.


#8

Anyone that studied history based upon ACTUAL FACTS would know that NAZI was an acronym (after translation) for National Socialist.


#9

Trekky’s opinion is the end product of a poor education - one that ignores the obvious. His underlying paradigm is simplistic and ultimately misleading and incorrect - right/left. The focus should be on what separates the right from the left- and that is the size/scope/power of government (primarily smaller government on the right vs larger government on the left/less centralized government power for conservatives vs more centralized government power for liberals). Therefore, the right vs left comparative paradigm should be based on the size, influence and power of government.

Based on this defining paradigm, what did ALL of the rulers Trekky mentions have in common? All of them were proponents of powerful centralized governments.

Based on the paradigm that takes into account the element that defines the political right and left in America - the role of government - Obama sure as hell is not right of center. And neither was Hitler!!


#10

You kidding? What policies of the Nazi party were at all far left? There’s a reason they were called fascists. The whole motivation behind Hitler was restoring Germany to its former glory and holding on to traditional values. Through genocide, maybe, but no one has ever said that Nazis were far left, whether they called themselves Socialist or not. Or perhaps you can educate us as to which socialist policies exactly the Nazi party implemented. (Literally none)


#11

… with Hitler and Mussolini … on the far right, and Stalin and Lenin on the far left.

Hitler and Mussolini were both socialists (Mussolini was a Communist before going his own way). They departed from Marx over nationalism, not nationalizing farms and industry, and not killing off business/farm owners. Lest you think the latter two significant, business owners and farm owners were kept in place for their business abilities, but made slaves in golden chains. Edit: I forgot! Hitler was infamous for destroying German trade unions; Stalin merely made USSR unions tools of the state; funny thing is, that made little difference to the workers, who were oppressed in Germany and oppressed in the USSR. Oh yeah, Part 2 … when it came to freedom of religion, there was none: not in the USSR; not in Germany. Hitler mainly co-opted religious groups; Stalin was less patient, and sent to the Gulags church leaders who were slow to go with his program.

The conflicts among Stalin, Hitler and Mussolini were over personal power-grabbing and ambition, with their supposed differences being relatively minor and basically pretexts. The realities of common life - working conditions, wages, personal freedoms - and foreign policy were little different between Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. Even Hitler’s attempted extermination of Jewish people has a Stalinist parallel.

The Right vs. Left continuum paradigm - Fascism and Communism being the supposed extremes - is an illusion. Reality, IMO (and in others’), is a freedom vs. statism continuum, with anarchy and oligarchic dictatorship (ala Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Mao or Kim I, II, & III) being the extreme opposites. And in that freedom vs. statism continuum paradigm, BHO is very much inclined toward statism rather than freedom (though obviously not Stalinist or Hitlerian - no purges, no concentration camps, etc.).


#12

Except that usually while far-left politics puts a lot of power in the state, at least in Marxism, it has the goal of putting power in the hands of the workers and the public. Hitler and Mussolini showed none of these parallels, with Hitler only calling his party the National Socialist Party as a ruse to try and get workers on his side. Hitler and Mussolini valued personal power, and wanted power concentrate not in the workers and the public, but in a few individuals. It is essentially exactly the definition of far-right politics, which incorporate strong and strict social hierarchies. Far-left politics, on the other hand, seeks to destroy social hierarchies and make everyone equal.

Hitler and Mussolini were the complete opposite of Marxism, Socialism, or Communism. They didn’t want to spread power, they wanted to concentrate it. Anyone who says they were far left is delusional. Their actions speak louder than their words, and their actions did not reflect any kind of left politics.

Your point about statism verus freedom, I think, can be put on a separate scale perpendicular to the first. As in someone can be right and value freedom or right and value statism, causing a 2-D plane of political positions.

A monarch or dictator, after all, concentrate power in the state, but I doubt any of us would say they are “far-left”.


#13

Hitler wanted to control the world and brainwash everyone into believing that the Aryan race were superior immortals!!! Stalin wanted to do the same though with communism and it appears he is finally being able to do so to the United States long after he has been dead.


#14

Wanting to convince or control people is not a political position. A dictator in Uganda can want the same thing, but that doesn’t make him far-left anymore than Hitler is far-left. Neither is killing people or genocide. Left and right are political positions relating to social hierarchies and structure, and Marxism (It is questionable at least whether Stalin or Lenin or the USSR ever truly implemented Marxism) and Hitler are completely opposite in this regard.

The terms were constructed in the 18th century during the French Revolution, and the right were loyal to the king. A king is pretty much the definition of state power, but that doesn’t make them left. Just because somebody puts power in the state does not make them left, and if you don’t believe me, pick up a book and look at the definitions of left and right politics. There is simply no way to put Hitler or Mussolini into anything resembling the left political spectrum.

The conservative right has defended entrenched prerogatives, privileges and powers; the left has attacked them. The right has been more favorable to the aristocratic position, to the hierarchy of birth or of wealth; the left has fought for the equalization of advantage or of opportunity, for the claims of the less advantaged. Defense and attack have met, under democratic conditions, not in the name of class but in the name of principle; but the opposing principles have broadly corresponded to the interests of the different classes.


#15

[quote=“Trekky0623, post:14, topic:37590”]
Wanting to convince or control people is not a political position. A dictator in Uganda can want the same thing, but that doesn’t make him far-left anymore than Hitler is far-left. Neither is killing people or genocide. Left and right are political positions relating to social hierarchies and structure, and Marxism (It is questionable at least whether Stalin or Lenin or the USSR ever truly implemented Marxism) and Hitler are completely opposite in this regard.

The terms were constructed in the 18th century during the French Revolution, and the right were loyal to the king. A king is pretty much the definition of state power, but that doesn’t make them left. Just because somebody puts power in the state does not make them left, and if you don’t believe me, pick up a book and look at the definitions of left and right politics. There is simply no way to put Hitler or Mussolini into anything resembling the left political spectrum.
[/quote]BS BS you just do not know history and I would say you think Obama is far right. Perhaps to you he is not far enough left.


#16

What far left policies did the Nazis have, Sam? Were they giving power to the workers and the public and forming unions and destroying social hierarchies? Did we all miss that in World War II?


#17

Hitler killed people because of the fact that they didn’t agree with him! He also had the political power of germany agreeing with him. The difference between Uganda and Hitler is that in Uganda the political power isn’t Centralized in Europe it was and still is!!!


#18

Centralized power is the complete opposite of the left. Are you purposefully getting this wrong? Marxism and Communism and Socialism seek to destroy centralized power, not the other way around. Whether they value freedom or authority is completely separate from left and right.


#19

You really don’t understand the chart you just posted. You really are saying that the right wants centralized government power and the left wants anarchy and freedom??? lolz. :rofl:

BTW, what do all you leftists always say?? Socialism isn’t communism. Hitler wasn’t a socialist. Stalinism isn’t pure communism. Communism is the very definition of centralized government power, because someone has to make the rules. That’s why Communism will never work. That’s why socialism will always be here.

BTW pure anarchism is pretty much what pure capitalism is. That will never happen either because we already have powerful monopolies that control whole markets. But I am getting way past the point here. You are wrong.


#20

I never said left=freedom, numnuts. I said that the right values hierarchy, the left values anarchy. What exactly do you think welfare and Communism do if not destroy economic hierarchy? Even if it is only economic, there is a dichotomy of hierarchy vs anarchy. This doesn’t relate to authority and freedom, though. Communism is destroying hierarchies through the state’s authority, while Hitler would be imposing hierarchies with state authority.

But please, if you think Hitler was far-left, name some policies that were far left, because besides “He killed people like Stalin!”, etc, there haven’t been any. He didn’t value worker rights or unions or any of the other things associated with the left. Hierarchies vs anarchies, authority vs freedom. They are completely separate spectrums of politics.

Just because you don’t like Hitler doesn’t mean he wasn’t a far right politician. I have never seen any political commentator or scholar ever say he was left, mostly because he was the complete definition of far-right authoritarian government.