Our Fifth Column’s government shut down over DACA


#21

I didn’t mention you and was not replying to any of your posts.


#22

Yet you invoked my argument in that, and likened them as being the same thing. Or are you claiming Napolitano was calling people racist?


#23

Actually, AS has been paying attention. His game, as usual, is to post an insinuation, and then respond to that insinuation in a manner which switches the subject. Did you notice how his “natural law” has popped up again?

JWK


#24

:roll_eyes:


#25

Oh lookie; Schumer has recanted on building the wall in exchange for DACA. The only surprise is that he pulled the football away before Charlie Brown started his approach…


#26

I’m curious to know just how “hellish” you think their existence might be. Did you READ that little vignette about the woman who found a man and his 10-year-old daughter ransacking her house? That’s a PERFECT allegory to the DACA situation. An illegal man, woman or COUPLE bring their kids into “our house” illegally and we are FORCED by government fiat to provide them with a place to live, food, medical care and an education, “because those kids didn’t come here by choice!” Yes they did…by their PARENT’S choice. Once they reached the age of majority, capable of making their own decisions, they COULD have gone back where their parents brought them from and applied for re-entry LEGALLY.


#27

There are thousands of innocent American children, who are citizens, who have their homes and families destroyed because their parents are convicted of crimes and imprisoned. Should we have “Defered Imprisonment for Offenders with Minor Children”? How’s that gonna work out?


#28

New York City gave birth to a communist Fifth Column movement
.

I remember when a Fifth Column movement was alive and thriving in New York City’s west village, also known as Greenwich Village.

See When New York City Was the Capital of American Communism

” The Brooklyn-born playwright and critic Lionel Abel, who cut his political teeth in left-wing circles in Greenwich Village in the 1930s, remarked in his memoirs that during the Depression years, New York City “went to Russia and spent most of the decade there.” Leaving aside Mr. Abel’s taste for the mordant, he had a point.

For a few decades — from the 1930s until Communism’s demise as an effective political force in the 1950s — New York City was the one place where American communists came close to enjoying the status of a mass movement. Party members could live in a milieu where co-workers, neighbors and the family dentist were fellow Communists; they bought life insurance policies (excellent value for money) from party-controlled fraternal organizations; they could even spend their evenings out in night clubs run by Communist sympathizers (like the ironically named Café Society on Sheridan Square in Greenwich Village, a showcase for up-and-coming black performers like Billie Holliday).”

Well, it appears the old Fifth Column movement is still alive and well in America and its ring leaders are in control of the democrat party who need an impoverished and dependent population who they can charm with free government cheese. Why else would Bill de Blasio, Schumer and Pelosi want to import the world’s dependent poverty stricken, poorly educated, low and unskilled populations into America?

Is it not reasonable to believe Bill de Blasio, Schumer and Pelosi are inspired by socialism and communism, and buying votes with government cheese to retain their hold on government power?

JWK

The unavoidable truth is, our social democrats’ plan for “free” college tuition will be paid for by taxing the paychecks of millions of college graduates who worked for and paid their own way through college and are now trying to finance their own economic needs.


#29

Crimes that weren’t their fault?

That’s the point. The DACA people have families of their own, I have two coworkers with families of their own.

And you want to hurt them, concerning the sins of the (Grand)Father.

Remove them from a place where they function, and send them to a place where they don’t know how to function, and with their family more than likely left behind.

Doomed to make repeals through an immigration system you have admitted yourself, is awful piece of crap, and which we all know, drags its damn feet.

Disrupt their lives, remove them from what they know, separate them from their families, all for something that wasn’t their fault… across 3 million people.

Backlash. That is what you are going to set off.


#30

Wrong, because as I know from having DACA coworkers, the more proper example, is of them being invited into the home.

Because that’s who the employers are, home owners, who invited them in. They aren’t “stealing” anything, they’re being paid, the same way I’am.

Absurd. Go through the beucratitic hell of waiting years in a place where they don’t know how to live?

You take time itself for granted , completely ignoring how red tape destroys people’s lives this way.

You want them to use the system? MAKE IT BLOODY WORTH USING. There is no excuse, for 25 year waiting periods, and you know it.

You would not tolerate that for anything in your own life, expecting someone else to is sophistry.


#31

So, I can put you down as a definite YES vote in favor of “Defered Imprisonment for Offenders with Minor Children”.


#32

No, you missed the point.

The child grows up, they have a family now, so you are punishing that family.

All for something, no one in the family is at fault for. Only the grandfather.

Again I ask, how many lives do you disrupt, when it’s 3 million people you’re trying to get rid of? How many other people do those 3 million know who will voice how wrong this is?

And again, these aren’t typical illegal immigrants. They’re acculturated Americans, they can speak for themselves, and have relationships with Americans who will speak for them.

You are asking for a backlash.


#33

Grandfather??? What the hell are you talking about? :vb-headbang:

This was my post that you responded to. It is in clear English, complete sentences, and punctuated properly. It is a comparison of the DACA treatment of illegal aliens versus treatment of citizens who are minors who are children of other citizens who have been sentenced to prison.


#34

Yes, my DACA coworker is now 32, and has a family of his own, which means, his family gets punished, for the actions of his children’s Grandfather.

Statute of limitations would apply if you actually waited to prosecute this long, where the child has grown up and is raising their own family. No felony short of murder or kidnapping would still be prosecutable after that much time.

And once again; they were a child when it happened, not their fault.

You don’t get to sidestep this. You are creating collateral damage in these families, for something that isn’t their fault. Which means your “example” doesn’t compare.

People who associate with those under DACA are going to notice that you are hurting innocent people & their families, they’re going to get angry at your coalition for doing it, and they’re going to take it out by joining the opposition.

Is that what you want? Do you honestly think handing the left a victim to stand behind, gets you anywhere worthwhile?


#35

Capitulating to the left doesn’t get anywhere. Anyway, I was not talking about the political or economic consequences of DACA or DIFOWMC. Innocent people can suffer consequences when the actions of their parents or spouse meet up with the rule of law. That’s life. How do I justify supporting preferential policies for innocent illegal aliens but not for innocent American citizens?


#36

It’s not the same thing, you forgot about statute of limitations.

If you waited this long, to prosecute something someone did as a child, while in the company of their parent, it would be thrown out with prejudice.

There’s no “preferential treatment” here, this is prosecutory overreach, and people are going to call you on it.

Then build the immigration system as something worth using, and quit ceding them the damn advantage!

They only get to parade them as victims, because you and others allow the system to victimize them in first place, blithely assuring yourself “not my problem.

The left isn’t interested in fixing it, only in exploiting it, and you enable them by refusing to address the real issue behind it all.


#37

BS. The REAL ISSUE behind it is that some people are willing to break our laws and come here without permission and others are happy to take advantage of that and hire them to work for pay under the table. You can stop that immediately, by putting up a barrier to their entry into the U.S. and fining those who hire them enough to put them out of business permanently. No jobs? No illegal immigration…assuming you can get government to deny illegals ANY benefits of citizenship whatsoever, including food stamps, “free” medical care, housing, etc., which seems to be a losing war at least until THIS administration took office.


#38

Which happened after we broke our immigration system, and made it not worth using.

After we took away legal avenues for them to do this. Cause & effect.

Farmers were hiring these people before the law was even here.

Farmers needed these workers 50 years ago, they still need them now.

THE REAL ISSUE, is that the law overstepped itself. It came onto relationships that were well established, and tried force everyone to stop it.

Bad idea.

The law does not respect immigrants, and it does not respect employers. It treats them both like crap.

You have admitted this Dave, that system is intolerable. It’s not transparent, it takes too long, and it’s too damn costly for all but the biggest employers to engage with.

The Federal Government has had 50 years to fix its error. If the Feds are that stupid with this responsibility, then it does not deserve it.

We had a perfectly functioning system in the 19th century when the States regulated immigration on their own; if the Federal Government is only going to ***** it up, then it’s high time it stepped aside.


#39

BS. Only a MINUTE percentage of illegal immigrants wind up in “farm” work. MOST of them go to those “urban centers” where they can suck from the government teat, or go to work in the house repair/construction industry, gardening, food service or become hotel maids.


#40

And meat packing, and fishing, and other industries that majoritivly operate in rural areas.

Same to trucking, who require loaders/forklift operators working out of hubs a long way away from large population centers.

So Dave, are you willing to grant that the system should be giving these people, in rural areas, clear & easy access to migrant labor?

Are you willing to say that, regardless of what goes in the cities, that maybe these people do need them?