Please listen to this, THIS guy is expressing what I, and I suspect others feel...


#1

http://radio.foxnews.com/2015/12/22/wall-street-journal-editor-bret-stephens-if-you-want-donald-trump-as-your-candidate-you-want-hillary-as-your-president/

This is directly from Fox radio. I can outline some quick points, but this guy works for the Wall Street Journal and in my opinion has hit the nail on the head regarding the current situation and “anti-establishment” and ideology purity that some are seeking. He also touches on Paul Ryan.

If you have 10 minutes, please just listen to it while you are doing the dishes or whatever, tell me why this guy is wrong. He has described it better than I could. Maybe some of you will call him the “establishment”. To me I don’t think it matters much because Hillary runs well against the vast majority of the GOP lineup. If don’t think so many years of name recognition and credibility, even if at times shaky;, is going to be replaced in a few months .

A final question, is it an acceptable option to have a Conservative president that you can agree with 60% of the time?


#2

This is so much more compelling than the other 5000 times that I have heard these fallacies spewed over the last 4 decades, I am now convinced!

[/sarcasm]

I don’t know what you have been watching for the last 4 decades but the Establishment GOP **NEVER **campaigns from a perspective of trying to convince voters of the superiority of their ideas, they ALWAYS campaign on the basis of trusting the democrats to choose their nominee and scaring their base into thinking Conservatism will be rejected in the general election.

Reagan was not electable either according to these idiots, if Trump falls in the polls these morons will just replace “Trump” with “Cruz” and continue on with this imbecilic narrative until they get a Statist nominated.

And I have to laugh at your 60 percent question, I would like to hear a defensible argument that the GOP Congress has passed anything that can be considered Conservative even 5 percent of the time.

People with genuine solutions advocate for those solutions, people with no intention of solving anything just demonize those who threaten the status quo; this narrative is so old I can see a dust cloud as this moron speaks.


#3

Regardless, which of these candidates is electable in the general election?

There is no way you can suggest Carson is an establishment hero, and he has been shown to be able to beat Hilary by the widest margin. The knock on him is he speaks too softly, isn’t strong enough. Ok, so we go the other way, take Trump who is loud boisterous, undiplomatic, offensive and disliked in general terms, and he is polling the worst head to head against Hillary.

Maybe the Conservative movement will be dead for a decade or so, until debt overcomes and voters realize that they are feeling a much bigger pinch than if they kept the economy balanced. I can’t say for sure what the answer is, but one has to recognize the uphill battle the GOP was always going to face when going against Clinton, and then Trump arrives at the scene…I felt sick to my stomach the moment he announced.


#4

You need to stop listening to polls. Easily manipulated, and not any measure of what voting Americans think.
Decide for whom you wish to vote, And check out the poll, after next election day. The post Election Day Poll is the only reliable poll, going.


#5

Any legitimate Conservative will wipe the floor with any candidate the democrats nominate.

Carter was supposed to sail past Reagan, the “polls” declared this universally right up to the election where Reagan won in a LANDSLIDE. Bush 43 was supposed to lose both times as well, in 2000 we were all told that only McCain could win in the general.

McCain polled the best against the democrats again in 2008, then Romney in 2012; we all got see first hand how letting the pre campaign polls and democratic talking heads pick a GOP savior works out.

The idea that a complete failure like Clinton who could not even dispatch a moron like Obama in 2008 and who has been a scandal ridden incompetent for her entire adult life is somehow worthy of fear as an opponent is ludicrous.

The only entity that I am aware of that could lose to Clinton is the Establishment GOP, those who back their play are just Clinton campaign surrogates.

“Shown”?

So your argument is daily tracking polls before the Primary even begins and no general election arguments have been made?

Please explain why anyone would join you in your fatalistic confidence in polls taken today about an election that has not even entered the campaign stage yet?

I have many more substantive “knocks” on Carson than his tone and tenor, non of which will matter because he will not compete for the nomination.

If you can produce an intellectually defensible argument for why that matters at this stage then please do, do you think the democrats are picking their candidate based on who they fear the GOP will nominate?

Of course not, because while democrats are indeed evil they are most certainly not stupid regarding elections.

I am embarrassed that so many who are supposed to know better fear a lightweight loser like Clinton, *only the wicked flee when nobody is chasing them.
*


#6

Who is really trying to elect Hillary?

Rubio and Bush (and many other prominent Republicans) have publicly stated “Donald Trump is not qualified to be president of the United States”. You can’t “walk back” or spin statements like these. When Trump is the nominee does anyone think the democrats will not capitalize on these statements, over and over again? They are, in effect, making compelling campaign ads for Hillary.


#7

Who cares what the Democrats do? The whole country knows by now how feckless and irresponsible they are. I don’t think there’s a single Democrat who can win the 2016 election–regardless of who the GOP nominates…unless we allow the NRC to choose our nominee FOR everyone else.


#8

The whole country knows? Maybe the “whole country” in your neighbourhood knows but there are tens of millions of American voters who don’t know, who will scratch their head when they hear a litany of prominent Republicans clearly stating that their own candidate is unqualified.

PS I care what the democrats do.


#9

Hilary more and more is showing signs of not being upto the job with her health and mental capacities such as forgetfulness. This has not stopped the DNC from pushing her even though more democrats are deflecting from her. Sanders seems to be picking up some steam since there is no other “viable” candidate on that side.

Meanwhile the republicans are trying to knock out the top contenders who have messages other than the GOP’s big government more socialism programs. By now we should have seen only the top three being debated rather that a field meant to defuse the vote.Rand Paul is trying to make himself relevant but shows the same lack of understanding of what needs to be done.

In the end I will judge whether a candidate holds to the standards they claim and not prove to be the usual politician whose values depend on staying in power. How many times have we seen a politician change their party if they find they are making no headway? ** That** tells me their “beliefs” are rooted not in conviction but if they think they can remain in power.Bottom line we see politicians tell us at election time how conservative they are then once in office or back in office go back to hating conservatism. Think McCain

My values do not change with the tide and I expect someone who says they hold the same values to represent me and not drop those values once in office. We do not need the likes of Judge Roberts.


#10

The only thing about the Democrats that I “worry” about is them pulling out all the stops to STEAL the election with phony votes, ballot-stuffing and electoral sabotage. They NEARLY got away with it in 2000 and succeeded beyond their wildest dreams in 2008 and 2012, and our “watchdog” press simply ignored it because no Republican challenged a single vote anywhere…apparently afraid of the “sour grapes” accusations that were sure to follow.


#11

Anyone who remembers the 2000 election and hanging chads with ballots being counted strictly by party affiliation of the judges rather than what the ballot said. The spectacle of seeing the case flying from court to court with the same result. Blacks being told there were road blocks preventing them from voting. Exit polling to sway people to vote a certain way for those last minute voters. Ballot stuffing with districts turning in more ballots than registered voters. The military vote time and again being told their ballots can not be counted

Since then we have seen ballots turn up in car trunks. Rigging of voting machines. Acorn signing up voters for the price of a cigarette. Mexican groups promising to sign up a million democrat voters and in my state a new law which allows same day registration for voting for all those illegals flooding the state.

If we can have any semblance of an honest election I would be surprised.


#12

Do I have to do something besides click on the link and then Bret Stephen’s pic to be able to listen? Nothing comes up for me.
From the follow-up posts to the OP, however, I doubt I want to be bothered.
Then to throw this from ShockedCanadian into it:

Maybe the Conservative movement will be dead for a decade or so, until debt overcomes and voters realize that they are feeling a much bigger pinch than if they kept the economy balanced. I can’t say for sure what the answer is, but one has to recognize the uphill battle the GOP was always going to face when going against Clinton, and then Trump arrives at the scene…I felt sick to my stomach the moment he announced.

…pretty well clinches it, as it’s so off the mark as to be near humorous.


#13

[quote=“shockedcanadian, post:1, topic:48011”]
http://radio.foxnews.com/2015/12/22/wall-street-journal-editor-bret-stephens-if-you-want-donald-trump-as-your-candidate-you-want-hillary-as-your-president/

This is directly from Fox radio. I can outline some quick points, but this guy works for the Wall Street Journal and in my opinion has hit the nail on the head regarding the current situation and “anti-establishment” and ideology purity that some are seeking. He also touches on Paul Ryan.

If you have 10 minutes, please just listen to it while you are doing the dishes or whatever, tell me why this guy is wrong. He has described it better than I could. Maybe some of you will call him the “establishment”. To me I don’t think it matters much because Hillary runs well against the vast majority of the GOP lineup. If don’t think so many years of name recognition and credibility, even if at times shaky;, is going to be replaced in a few months .

A final question, is it an acceptable option to have a Conservative president that you can agree with 60% of the time?
[/quote]I agree with him on everything but his backhanded dismissal of Ted Cruz.


#14

Still can’t get the vid to work, but is this is the Bret Stephens’ attitude that some think is of worthy of note, you need to have your heads examined:

If You Support Donald Trump, You Want to Lose. Earlier this week, Bret Stephens of The Wall Street Journal unleashed a petulant column accusing all Trump and Cruz backers of begging for defeat. “Let us now pledge to elect Hillary Clinton as the 45th president of the United States,” he snarked. “Let’s do this because it’s what we want. Maybe secretly, maybe unconsciously, but desperately. We want four—and probably eight—more years of cable-news neuralgia. We want to drive ourselves to work as Mark Levin or Laura Ingraham scratch our ideological itches until they bleed a little. We want the refiner’s fire that is our righteous indignation at a country we claim no longer to recognize—ruled by impostors and overrun by foreigners.” Stephens specifically singled out Cruz for criticism, calling him a flip-flopper “happy to be on any side of an issue so long as he can paint himself as a ‘real Republican.’”

George Will: Beating Hillary Less Important Than Stopping Trump - Breitbart

I’ll keep it brief. It’s shallow thinking like his,and contempt for those who would aim toward higher results that got us into this problem in the first place.


#15

George Will opposed Reagan with the same tripe, amazing how establishment hacks never seem to learn.


#16

Trump is no Reagan. Not in content, policy, economic concepts, character, leadership qualities, morals, ethics, integrity, life experiences, appeal to liberty and freedom, appeal for smaller government and individualism, appeal to fighting the worlds enemies. Trump is neither a Conservative nor a cerebral candidate, he is an entertainer. I am beginning to understand how he appeals to the angry and silent voters, maybe the established candidates despise him for different reasons, but I think some genuinely dislike him because they know he is the best thing that has happened to the Dems.

The comparisons between Trumps “anti-establishment”, “underdog” candidacy run and Reagans end there. Put it this way, if Reagan were running today with his exact same 1980 campaign, he would win comfortably, especially when it came time to debate and contrast the vast differences in policy, something Trump can’t do as he is basically “Democrat Light” outside of immigration and foreign affairs. Hillary and anyone else for that matter would fear Reagan, Trump is only feared for how low he may take his shots, which will easily be turned around; unfairly or not, as him bullying once again.

The point is being made by many as it will most certainly become fact. Trump can’t ride certain sentiments much further than he already has. He doesn’t have an Eastern Bloc to stand against and Democratic roots don’t allow him to appeal to either side with those voters near the middle.

I am not a big fan of Cruz, but he is a far better candidate than Trump. At least if he won you would have some semblance of economic sanity.


#17

SockedCanadian, I’m not going to waste a whole lot of bandwidth, nor my time, telling you how upsidedown, backwards and wrong-headed that last post was.
I’ll just say it is.


#18

George Will is an atheist.

We should listen to him … why exactly?


#19

I beg to differ. They did learn, and learned well.


#20

I don’t care what Will’s religion is; unless, of course, that includes bowing at the alter of the RNC, which, apparently, he does.
The real clincher is when he said something along the lines of openly wondering if Trump would eliminate the GOP as the ‘Conservative’ Party.
:howler: