Pope Francis on Abortion (as Cardinal)


#1

The new pope doesn’t mince words when it comes to abortion and other life issues.

As Cardinal, Pope Francis condemned abortion even in rape cases | LifeSiteNews.com


#2

The US national MSM have been mouthing their “disappointment” that he seems unlikely to be a Pope who will, as they euphemistically put it, “reform” the Catholic Church. The impression I’ve gotten is that Francis would regard the “reforms” of the faith they hope for as unfaithfulness to the Christian faith. OTOH, I’ve seen considerable hope expressed that Francis will reform the Church’s bureaucracy, the Curia, which I’ve heard - how accurately, I don’t know - as corrupt and less than responsive to the needs and concerns of regional Church leaders (Bishops and Archbishops).


#3

I have heard that the Holy See has fallen into the pit of bureaucracy. How far I do not know.


#4

I think the MSM’s focus, and this has become an increasingly used sledgehammer AGAINST the Catholic Church, is the issue of sexual abuses by the clergy. No doubt some has occurred, but the MSM likes to portray that all members of the Catholic clergy are pervs, and that their bishops are engaged in massive coverups. As I just said, there is no question that these things have occurred, but I don’t think it is as widespread as the MSM portrays in their hysterical hype.

That’s what the MSM means by “reform” (exposing this “conspiracy” and taking action that THEY deem appropriate), and it is a very narrow meaning. There is a much larger meaning of “reform”, but this very narrow issue is brought out every time the Church attempts to move, and used as though it were a valid way to cast doubt on other efforts the Church makes.

“Yeah, BUT your priests blah, blah, blah . . ., so how can you blah, blah, blah . . .”

It’s like when a child gets caught smoking, and attempts to divert attention by saying “Well, Johnny’s parents let him . . .”

There are two elements to a Pope’s impact on the man in the street.

First, there is the management element. The sexual abuse issue is a part of that, but other than that, management, good or bad, has very little DIRECT impact on the man in the street. It (the management element) is primarily the Pontif’s ability to control the Roman Curia, a group of Italian Cardinals who jealously guard their running of the Vatican and complicate things with turf wars.

In the recent past, Popes haven’t really been focused on managing the Vatican, rather they have been focused on being “holy men”, and hence being regarded by the masses as such. Ratzinger was good at neither.

But that’s the second element of a Pope’s role . . . his “holiness” and his ability to communicate with the masses. And in that regard, John Paul II (Karol Józef Wojtyła) was eminently qualified, did an extraordinary job, and set the standard for all modern Popes. Whether J.P.II was a good manager, I have no idea . . . but my sense is that his subordinates were swayed by his holiness rather than any stern management directives (hard to imagine him doing that kind of thing anyway.) Whether he controlled the Curia, again I have no idea.

So, the ideal Pope would be one that both gave the aura of holiness and was an efficient manager. Whether Francis is going to be able to fill both those roles, I don’t know.


#5

Pete: You are correct about the meaning of “reform”. It has different meanings to different people. In the modern church, there are those who cry for reform meaning that they are unhappy with the traditional teachings of the Church on abortion, women’s issues, gay issues, etc. Most of these folks are Catholic in name only. Examples would be: Pelosi, the Kennedys, Jennifer Granholm, John Kerry, Sebellius, and countless others. In other words, reform, to people like this means to loosen up or free altogether those tenets or rules that are deemed irrelevant or “oppressive” to these people.

Reform, in the eyes of the last few popes has meant a turning back to the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church. A reform to the reform, so to speak. Vatican II was seen as the ultimate reform in the Church–and in many ways it was. However, reform by individuals who were already devisive with the traditions of the Church took “reform” to mean destruction of the traditional teachings of the Church. To many radical leftists in the church today, reform means destruction. Most of these folks have serious problems with many teachings and attitudes in the Church. And to them I say, “There’s the door…” If you don’t like the teachings of the Church or you feel “oppressed” by them, no one is forcing you to stay. Please go. But the fact is tht these folks don’t WANT to go. They want to form the Church according to THEIR ideas. It will never be that way. The Catholic Church (and other Christian churches for that matter) are viewed by many as DEMOCRATIC institutions. They are far from that. No one in the entire history of the Catholic Church has ever voted one way or the other regarding one of the tenets of the faith. They simply cannot. The Church was not established that way. And for those who seem to think that it intolerable, I say, go find another one that suits your needs and ideals. There are thousands out there that I’m sure they would be able to find a church that holds the same beliefs.


#6

I’m liking Pope “Psycho” so far. Alot. He’s had one hell of a life, and is a very humble person by all accounts.
Read up on him.

I think he was a great choice.


#7

I agree. But, I don’t get the Pope “Psycho” bit…


#8

Its from the movie stripes


#9

I’m not Catholic, but I like this Pope.


#10

Never call him Francis, or he’ll kill you.


#11

It’s been like that for over a millenium, sadly. The Catholic Church relatively early on adopted the bureaucracy and cultural outlook of ancient Rome. On one hand, this allowed it to have a functioning system during the Middle Ages and coordinate its activities. One the other hand, I don’t think I have to spell out how Roman values aren’t always in line with Christianity.

Lol, and yeah, I like him too, although it’s still very much up the air as to what he’s actually gonna do.


#12

Hahahaha!!! Now I get it! My father’s middle name was Francis and he hated it. I don’t understand why, but whenever he was asked his middle name, he would say he didn’t have one. God rest his soul!


#13

I used to refuse to tell people what my middle name was (it’s the name I use as my screen name), because, as sure as I did, someone would start singing, “Oh, Susanna, oh, don’t you cry for me!”


#14

Oh, Susanna, oh, don’t you cry for me; I come from Alabama, with my Banjo on my knee!


#15

First, when the MSM cries for reform, when the people cry for reform what they really want is for the Church, both Catholic and Protestant to water down the message to the point that Christianity means nothing and people don’t have to feel guilty about sin anymore. The Mainline Churches , for the most part, have done their part. They have negated the infallibility of the Bible, tried to meld in with world religions, and in essence become social clubs. This is what the media wants the Catholic Church to become. Hopefully this Pope and those that follow reclaim the Bible as infallible, and stay strong on message. With the Protestant Churches, as the mainline Churches fall further into blasphemy many new Bible denominations are arising. And many mainline Churches are leaving their respective denominations choosing to join a more conservative one.


#16

I left organized religion a while ago. Too many cliques it became less about the Bible. I still read and study often and have religious discussions with friends.


#17

NJC: Absolutely correct. It’s that old enemy the deceiver at work in the msm, politics and follywood. It all boils down to “misery wants company”. People who pay lip service to their respective Churches and the tenets of their faith, simply want to wallow in their sinfulness. They don’t want ANYONE to tell them they’re wrong–including God. (That is why so many are apt to interpret the Scriptures according to their agenda.) If they were to admit that, they’d have to stop what they’re doing and THAT would not make them happy. And so, they employ tactics to convince the world that what they’re saying and doing is right, and what the Churches claim is either erroneous or irrelevant. (Religion is the opiate of the masses?) Many people AND Churches have taken that bait hook, line, and sinker. I’ve said this several times on this forum in different threads: GOD IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND TOMORROW. And, you are absolutely spot-on regarding the Catholic Church and those who oppose her teachings. For the most part, the Catholic Church (with exceptions of various individual priests, bishops, and laymen) and mainline Protestant Churches are the last bastions of orthodoxy. They always have been and will continue to be the targets of those who would render the Churches into meaningless organizations of some kind of religious anorexia.


#18

Amen Njc, Jesus didnt come into this world to say there are multiple truths, and while he loves us beyond our understanding, people forget how seriously ticked off he got when they turned the temple into some common den of thieves .


#19

It seems that in today’s “feel-good” mentality, we are constantly being told about God’s love for us—and there’s no question that He loves us more than we love ourselves. However, we also have conveniently forgotten about God’s justice. God’s justice is not our justice. His justice is PERFECT justice. We WILL get what we deserve in the end. And, believe me, when standing naked before the Creator of the Universe, we won’t be able to rationalize or defend our sinfulness like we do here. Perfect justice will be rendered to each and every last one of us regardless of our beliefs, our excuses, or our denials of His existence. Seems to me that a lot of us are going to be quite surprised in the end. God will not be mocked.


#20

UNTRUGBY; I am sorry you have left "organized " religion, but you need the fellowship of believers in corporate Worship. This is what God wants of us. To Worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. God is Holy and His Word is True. I do hope that soon you can find that Bible Teaching/ Worshipping Fellowship, where you can grow, in Worship, Teaching, Prayer and Intersession, Servanthood and Giving.
Going to Church isn’t what I can get out of it, But what God would have me to do, it is sacrificial, it is giving of myself, and my substance.
Now back to subject: This new Pope will not stray far, if at all, from the Roman Catholic teaching. In this day in age I believe the Catholic Church will take a long hard look at their image in the public eye, and also in the Scriptural basics. I feel that the catholic Church along with the Protestant Church as a whole will, within the next couple of years begin to look at the Bible once again, especially as the mainline denominations begin to see the peel off of Churches to more conservative denominations. I would say that in ten years there will be a powerful Biblical Revival in both the catholic Church as well as Protestant. Hope I will be around but I doubt it.