Protesters Remove U.S. Flag, Replace It With Mexican Flag Outside ICE Facility


#21

Remember, Send (and this is a VERY important) distinction) , Alaska Slim is emphatically NOT pro open borders (because he emphasises that A LOT), he’s anti border enfocement, border control, or, ya know, border in general. Heck, a border can’t be open if it doesn’t exist can it?


#22

Who specified Mexicans? 52 countries were represented in one of the recent waves to illegally cross our border from Mexico. They don’t have to come from Mexico to come through Mexico. Am I going too fast for you, or are you being intentionally obtuse?


#23

Yet I never said that.

People get angry at liberals lying about what Trump’s position is, so why are you turning around and doing that to me?

Shouldn’t we each enact the changes we want to see?


#24

Both your original theory post, and What you responded to:

Mexico = Mexicans.

Asians aren’t going to do that, nor would Latin Americans.

But equally; this was an insincere thing to claim qix. You just wasted our time by forcing this exchange.

Why can’t we skip things like this?


#25

Don’t give me any your garbage about insincerity. I have told you exactly what I think, and if you don’t like, lump it. You know exactly what i mean about what the Democrats are up to with their open borders policy, and you are playing hand and glove them with your open borders position.

I have offered a compromise with immigration reform, but like so many people today, compromises don’t cut it with you. It’s your way or the highway. Anybody who wants to come here should be allowed to come here. That is your position and it stinks.


#26

You didn’t describe my position, you described a strawman.

And that’s what a strawman is, an insincere debate tactic.You can’t deny that Send.

I’ve described to you 5 times over what my position is; a guest worker program. One which bars criminals and the sick. You knew this, yet you decided not to say it.

If you don’t know how to Steel man someone else’s position, and you choose instead to strawman them, then how are you any different than the people who misrepresent Trump?

How are you not contributing to same problem we see everywhere, where people cannot talk to one another?

And that’s only talking at me, not to me. To talk to me, you need acknowledge what my position is.

You don’t need to Steelman necessarily, but that would be appreciated.


#27

This is your usual BS. You can’t or won’t explain your position for yourself; you create links to have others do it for you. Pathetic. I have yet to put any Internet links on this board to explain my position, and I never will. If i can’t do it myself, I don’t understand my position well enough. Maybe that’s you problem.

How can I articulate your position when you are unable to articulate it?

From what I can see, you want open borders, but once the immigrants get here, you don’t want them to get automatic citizenship and benefits. That is a total fantasy because once they are here, their kids will be going to school, and they will going to the emergency room if they can’t get health care anywhere else. Furthermore all of the Democrat presidential candidates are committed to giving them health care and probably more.


#28

And yet I just did:

a guest worker program. One which bars criminals and the sick.

And I did it before. And I’ve quoted myself doing it before. We’ve done all of this, and yet you still straw man my position.

You’re out of explanations Send, you have no reason to not restate what my position is. You’re simply choosing not to.

So again I ask, how is this any different than the actions of people who misrepresent Trump?


#29

“Guest workers” who live here PERMANENTLY aren’t “guests” at all. They are interlopers and invaders. Would YOU put up with having a “guest” come to live with you and never leave?


#30

How can you run a guest worker program when you have no records and no control over who is coming across the border? How can you run a guest worker program when all you have is catch and release?

To me a guest worker program means that you come here with a passport, get it stamped with an understanding that you are going to be here for a specified period of time. When the time is up, you get it renewed or you go home. If you are of value to the nation, citizenship or permanent legal status gets on the table…

What is missing now is organization and order.


#31

“These people” =/= Mexicans. “These people” is obviously (if you’re arguing in good faith) intended as an umbrella term for all latino illegals, which would include Mexicans. Get your story straight Slim: are all illegals Mexican or not? You seem yo be saying now that they are.

Also, I don’t know what “original theory post” to which you are referring. I think you are attributing something to me that I didn’t post. I could be wrong, (it does happen on extremely rare occasions) but without a quote, idk, so I can’t really respond or clarify


#32

Yeah, that’s not what anybody in power actually wants. That’s not even what most businesses want. What businesses want is illegal labor, because whatever problems come with it, they avoid a stupendous amount of expense in regulatory compliance costs, and they can only do that with completely off-the-books labor. They can eat a lot of extra taxes and still come out well to the good. The program you describe is fine and dandy, no problem as far as it goes…but it will emphatically not solve the problem of illegal immigration. It probably wouldn’t even reduce it a noticeable amount.


#33

Which doesn’t make sense. The only people who’d be interested in returning California to Mexico, would be Mexicans. Other Latinos don’t care.

And It’s because Mexicans are shrinking in both absolute numbers, and in terms of % of immigrants (illegal and legal), that I don’t see any long term balkanization happening either.

As Barone said, we hit peak Mexican immigration in the 90s, and we’ve been coasting downward since the peak we hit in 2007.

And it’s never going to return; Because Mexico’s fertility rate is on the marginal boundary. 2.1 kids per couple.


#34

Yes they do; employers want a reliable worker stream of people who’ve been checked out.

There’s risks involved with taking people off the street who don’t have established history working in the U.S.

A Guest Worker program fixes those risks.

Immigrants go along with it, because a simple to use system would reestablish trust. Equally, it’d be less costly, and risky for them, than using Coyotes or the Cartels to breach the border.

The Government could easily out compete the Coyotes, just by making the application fee $200.


#35

There are a lot of Latinos that really hate gringos. I wouldn’t attempt to put a specific percentage on it but definitely significant. They might not exactly like Mexicans, but at least they’re not the hated Americanos. And yes, some of them would cheerfully see the American southwest returned to it’s “rightful owners”…


#36

It doesn’t matter; if they thought Mexico was better, they would be in Mexico.

If the idea was popular, you could find speakers among Latin American voicing it. But I can’t qix.

The only speakers I can find for this “Atzlan” idea, are the same 1960s has-beens who came up with it in the first place. Who are all Mexican.

Their websites are 90’s geocities throwbacks. Their facebook pages have a wopping 14,000 likes. There’s no energy here.


#37

And yet, it was the MEXICAN flag that was raised at that Colorado ICE incident last week. It wasn’t the Guatemalan flag and it wasn’t the flag of El Salvador or Honduras.


#38

I can find protests by the KKK waving the Betsy Ross flag; does that make them popular? Does it make the flag theirs?

I think you know the difference between a movement, and the actions of some randos.


#39

I’ve NEVER see the Betsy Ross flag waved by the KKK ANYWHERE. It was mischaracterized as “racist” because it was this country’s FIRST flag and those who MADE that mischaracterization are convinced that we were founded as a racist nation and remain so today.


#40

So you see my point then? Randos are being randos.