Question to Christians.

Hello, I would like to ask you several questions about your faith, and about your perception of Atheism. I would like to clear any potential misconceptions you may have about atheism and inform you about an alternative world view. But first I would like to see where the individuals interested stand.

Atheism.

  1. What is your definition of Atheism?
  2. Do you believe Atheism is a faith?
  3. Do you find that you view Atheism with negativity, and if so why?
  4. Why do you believe people leave their religion for atheism?
  5. Do you believe that people are immoral without religion and why do you believe this?
  6. What is your view of evolution?

Christianity.
7. Do you interpret the bible literally, or metaphorically?
8. Do you believe god is omnipotent?
9. Is there a hell, if so, how could people sent to heaven live with the idea that potential family members of friends are stuck there suffering for eternity?
10. If you answered yes to nine, are people who are oblivious to god and sin doomed for damnation?
11. Why couldn’t god simply forgive us for our sins, rather than sending Jesus down to die for them?
12. How do you rationalize the passages which advocate for morally questionable acts, such as murder?
13. Why would god care if you worshiped him or not?
14. Can god destroy all evil if he chooses to, if so, why doesn’t he?
15. Would you find it arrogant of me to demand you praise me every time I posted and ban you if you did not comply, as I claimed I was a deity with unfathomable powers. If you answered yes explain why this is arrogant.

I will go into more detail with the importance of these questions once people respond.

Why do you believe there is no God? Why do you hate religion? Frankly members have seen such as yourself come here time after time try to flood republican sites with their hate for religion by practicing their brand of religion.

So more than likely you are going to get a big yawn.:deadhorse:

1 Like

If you are truly an Atheist this topic should hold no interest to you with the possible exception of pure research, which I do not feel you are here for. I believe you are here for some “gotcha” moment feeling you have some great prepared replies.

I will go this far for you. Atheism is a complete lack of faith. Man and nature are completely on their own, all is random chance. There are very few real Atheists. Today, it is the “look I’m a radical” thing to be. True Atheists would not care about symbols of religion being displayed anywhere, they would be nothing more than art or furniture. Have you ever used Gods name in vain? Why, it would be a meaningless phrase to you. Like when something goes wrong saying, marsh mellow. What would be the point?

Perhaps if you give your points, people might play along. Show why you are heading down this road. If you do not wish to, just read what has been written already on the here where you started this.

This is the best video that I’ve ever seen about the reality of atheism:

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Regarding atheists, the realities of God …

** “…are written on their hearts…” ** __Ro.2:14

The atheists cannot get God off their minds. They actually and literally have “God on the brain.” (and I mean that in a good way …See Ro.2:14,15 below)

They think about Him regularly, and talk about Him regularly, and ask questions about Him regularly.

The atheists don’t “believe in God” but they are drawn like a magnet to Faith And Beliefs Forums, where they talk very seriously about the God they do not believe exists.

“Hey, I’m an atheist, and I want to talk seriously about the God that I do not believe exists.”

Notice up there in the Opening Post to see what he is so very interested in talking about:


Here are 8 key words from the Opening Post: “Christians” … “Faith” … “Bible” … “God” … “Jesus”… “Heaven”… “Hell”… “Sin” …

He is unaware of the reason he cannot get God off of his mind and why he has a strong desire to talk about those words, and the reason is that God made man in His own image …

… not a physical image of course, but rather a spiritual image in the areas of:

(1) God has an Intellect, so does man,

(2) God has Emotions, so does man,

(3)God has Volition, so does man, (free will)

(4)God is a Spiritual Being, so is man,

… and so the image of God is stamped on his soul …

… and he cannot get God off his mind and out of his heart no matter what he does or where he goes ~~ the image of God will be forever stamped upon his soul.

Why is that true? Because he can never un-human himself. Think about that! He will FOREVER be a human being, and because he can never un-make himself and turn himself into a different kind of creature, he will FOREVER have the image of the God that created him imprinted upon his soul…

…which means that he can never stop talking about God, his Creator.

Therefore he will keep right on talking about the God he “does not believe exists” and Romans 2:14,15 explains why that is true.

“14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law ** [SIZE=3] are written on their hearts,**** their consciences also bearing witness, ** and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)” [/SIZE]

** “…are written on their hearts…” ** __Ro.2:14

** “… their consciences also bearing witness …” **__Ro.2:15

:smile:

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Hey Jack, why do so many Christians talk about Allah, who they believe does not exist?

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These are the best videos I’ve ever seen about the foolishness of atheism:

“A man must travel to places that he doesn’t know to break this arrogance that makes us see the world as we imagine it, and not as it is”__Signed: Any Christian that travels the world

/Big Grin

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Hey cactus , why do so many atheists lie about the reality of their lives having any true worth at all?
Why do so many atheists lie about atheism naturally leading to nihilism
Why are so many atheists not even seeking God honestly with an open mind and heart
Why did you not even make one post in the shroud of turin thread?

This is why Tp make his post, and that’s why he is very factual about his post
The problem with most atheists is that they aren’t even honest with themselves.
Especially the ones who are on here solely for those aha moments.

When they wake up on their judgment day and realize that what they having been emotionally (and not intellectually) denying is reality it will be a little to late. I wonder if Satan will have this much patience with them :wink:

[quote=“tperkins, post:3, topic:38697”]

it is the “look I’m a radical” thing to be. True Atheists would not care about symbols of religion being displayed anywhere, they would be nothing more than art or furniture.
[/quote]:yeahthat:

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Cactus,

In the first place, a large number of Christians DO NOT talk about Allah.

In the second place, the relatively few Christians that do talk about Allah have good reasons: Its because of what Allah’s followers did on 9/11/2001 … you remember the two towers of the World Trade Center and the some 3000 dead Americans!

You also remember the MANY other acts of small scale mass killings carried out by the followers of Allah in the last several years throughout the West. The Christians talking about Allah, were/are talking about a present time real threat to their physical body, so it’s not some far-fetched fear. Btw, as you know, there are no Christians blowing up people anywhere in the world. You have nothing to fear physically from Christendom.

:cool:

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Exactly Jack and it makes you wonder what are the real reasons that atheists are so concerned with Christianity?
Could it be deep down inside, behind their emotional denial of God’s existence that intellectually and spiritually they know that he exists? :wink:

[quote=“wallstreeter43, post:11, topic:38697”]

Could it be deep down inside, behind their emotional denial of God’s existence that intellectually and spiritually they know that he exists? :wink:
[/quote]Yes and it scares the hell out of them so they vehemently deny it.

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At the risk of pissing off some of my fellow Christians, since they may perceive that some of my views are “unChristian” and hence “yoked with the devil”, I will answer your questions. The reasons I am answering are three: 1) Your questions are thought-provoking, and I always like that, 2) I am firm enough in my religious views that I don’t hold your views as a “threat” to mine . . . IOW, my beliefs are not shaky, I have thought about them, and other views (probably all of your arguments) quite a bit, and the considered conclusion I have arrived at is comfortable to me, and 3) I am always interested in other world views, even if I disagree with them. It’s always good to understand opposing opinions . . . otherwise you cannot speak knowledgeably in a discussion of other opinions.

I doubt you’ll present anything I haven’t heard before and already evaluated. But it might be prudent for you to keep in mind that my ultimate conclusion is based on . . . FAITH . . . NOT reason (though the common atheist reply to this is that unproven religious propositions deserve as much disbelief as all other unproven propositions . . . that may apply in mathematics, but I don’t buy it elsewhere), consequently if you find yourself saying “Geezzzz, he sees the logic of my reasoning, then why isn’t he an atheist?”, it’s my FAITH that overrides reasoning when necessary (though I’ve encountered that situation only once . . . you’ll see below, but I’m agreeable to tests of my FAITH . . . I’ve already had some I doubt you can top . . . will explain further on down.)

BTW, I’m a Chemical Engineer, so I’m steeped in science and reason. However, just because I can’t measure it doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t exist. I keep science confined to measurements, religion, OTOH, is largely feelings. Using “feelings” in science would lead to catastrophe. Likewise, confining religion to measurements would lead to catastrophe . . . or maybe atheism.

One qualifier here. If your intention turns out to be to abrasively assault MY beliefs . . . all bets are off and I’ll withdraw from any debate immediately. If your intention is benign, then I don’t mind going through my reasons for believing in God and discussing the issues. IOW, if you’re a “New Atheist”, in the mold of Richard Dawkins, Daniel C. Dennett, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, and Victor J. Stenger, and like them, believe that “religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized, and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises”, I will decline to discuss it any further . . . since a discussion will likely be negative and unproductive. I’ll shut the door in your face, as I do when Jehova’s Witnesses come knocking.

If you want to say you disagree with my views, explain yours and why you hold them . . . fine, I have no problem with that. But if you want to evangelize, I DO have a problem with that. If that is your intent, I’m done. I don’t wear my religion on my sleeve, and I don’t mind atheists who don’t wear their atheism on THEIR sleeves. If you don’t try to convince me your views are superior by belittling and insulting mine, I won’t try to convince you mine are superior by belittling and insulting yours. Cross that line, and we’re done.

Challenge all you want, as long as it’s NOT abrasive, condescending, or otherwise uncivil. If I sense that this is just an attempt at a “gotcha” moment, as tperkins remarked, we’re done. If it remains a good faith effort to challenge and discuss in a civil tone, WITHOUT insulting sarcasm (benign sarcasm for emphasis is fine), then we can continue.

Now, your questions on the topic of “Atheism”:

  1. What is your definition of Atheism?

Atheism, in a broad sense, is the disbelief that there are any deities, the Christian God included, but other gods are also included, like “Allah” in Islam. However, there are sects of atheism, just like there are in Christianity. Some atheists insist that there is no God, period (“Positive atheism”) . . . some just hold that they don’t believe in one (“Negative atheism”) . . . there IS a difference. Agnostics may be “Negative atheists”, but not “Positive atheists”. So, when someone says they’re an atheist, the first question I ask is “Can you be more specific?” An evaluation of an atheist’s opinions is likely off the mark unless you know exactly and precisely “what kind of atheist” they are. The most that can be assumed safely is that there is a disbelief in deities, but it usually goes much farther than that.

A good example of this is that since some Buddhists don’t have gods, there CAN be such a thing as an “atheistic buddhist”. However, an atheist may not believe in spirituality or transcendental concepts, and therefore in that “sect” there would be no such thing as an “atheistic buddhist”.

And here’s a surprise (~sarcasm~), the country that has the largest percentage of the population atheistic is . . . drum roll . . . FRANCE. The lowest rate of atheism is in the U.S.

There is “implicit atheism”, which is only “the absence of theistic belief without a conscious rejection of it”, an example of that being a baby that is unable to register conscious notions of God (though that is arguable), and there is “explicit atheism”, the classic example of which is individuals that hold a conscious disbelief.

“Constructive atheism” holds that humanity is the determinant of morals and ethics . . . IOW, “relative morals”. Marx and Freud held these views.

Consequently, in answer to the question “What is your definition of atheism?”, I would reply “I have none beyond a general category, so you’ll have to tell me what precise definition I should use for YOU.” Interestingly, a lot of atheists have absolutely no idea what “type” they are, and many are confused when they hear my reply.

  1. Do you believe Atheism is a faith?

In the sense that atheists are convinced their opinion is correct, and all other opinions are NOT, Yes.

  1. Do you find that you view Atheism with negativity, and if so why?

Not necessarily. It depends on how the atheist defines him/her self. Absent a definition, one can reasonably draw conclusions on a definition by the opinions an atheist expresses.

If it is a “New Atheist”, as I described above and which seems to be more fashionable these days since those individuals I named have recently published best selling books, YES, I view that particular type of atheist negatively . . . much as I would a Jehova’s Witness knocking on my door.

  1. Why do you believe people leave their religion for atheism?

I’m not aware of any valid numbers on this, but my sense is that it is more in reverse.

However, in answer to the question, I believe that if religious FAITH is not strong enough, one can be vulnerable to an argument from an atheist.

  1. Do you believe that people are immoral without religion and why do you believe this?

Most atheists, except “Christian Atheists” (and I’ll explain what seems like an oxymoronic phrase in a second), believe in a relative morality based on the ethics of a human community and which can be extremely shaky, among other flaws. Following the herd is not always “moral”. “Situational Ethics” sometimes prevail then.

Explanation: “Christian Atheists” are those that reject a belief in the Christian God, but hold to the morals that Jesus expressed in the Bible.

  1. What is your view of evolution?

As a recent Pope expressed in an encyclical, the theories of traditional evolution are not in conflict with a Roman Catholic viewpoint (though not a practicing Roman Catholic, my religious views are most similar to those of a Roman Catholic.) My views on evolution are mostly traditional, though admittedly there are some large gaps in that view.

Now for your questions on “Christianity”:

  1. Do you interpret the bible literally, or metaphorically?

When I was raised (in the 1950’s), the Catholic version of the Bible was the Douay-Rheims version, while the Protestants used their own version, the King James bible. There are plenty of similarities, but also some substantial differences.

Some Christian sects, like Southern Baptists, take their Bible literally. I don’t.

I don’t take the bible stories as anything else than parables with moral meaning, and nothing at all is intended to be literal. And as far as any meaning goes, you have to consider the historical context.

They were only written for a very small portion of human kind (Jewish tribes in the Middle East . . . though some of the moral principles are universal) and in a time when those tribes were either in conflict with other tribes or persecuted themselves. Plus, the Roman yoke was over Palestine at the time of the new testament writings. So there was a lot of military and political turmoil in the area. Some of the stories addressed very local traditions and situations, and some had universal applications. Some don’t apply any more, and some have continued to apply through the ages.

Some of the books transcribed have either been excluded by various sect conclaves throughout the ages or different translations have been sanctioned by various sects, hence we have so many versions these days. Which version you use depends largely on how much you believe “divine inspiration” played a role in the translation of that particular version, and how much credibility you give the particular conclave that came up with that version.

This is one of the reasons I don’t use Bible quotes in my posts.

  1. Do you believe god is omnipotent?

YES.

  1. Is there a hell, if so, how could people sent to heaven live with the idea that potential family members of friends are stuck there suffering for eternity?

This is a very thought provoking question. My compliments for coming up with it. And here is where I’ll tell the story of the testing of my FAITH, which was also instrumental in my beliefs about hell.

My middle son contracted Salmonella Meningitis when he was six months old. He was stricken permanently blind and deaf then, and had grand mal seizures (he died on his tenth birthday.)

Chrissy’s death was one of the significant events in my analysis. The “Why do bad things happen to good people?” question. There was really no adequate answer for me, so I figured I had two choices: either become an atheist, or chalk it up to a mystery of FAITH that I could never begin to understand anyway, and believe in God. I chose the mystery of FAITH approach and continued to believe in God. The typical atheist answer (that there’s an answer for everything, we just haven’t found it yet) didn’t satisfy me. I firmly believe there are just flat out some things we’ll NEVER find answers to. That’s where FAITH comes in.

Catholics have created a region they call “Limbo” (though this may not be exclusive to Catholics . . . other sects may have a similar construct.) “Limbo” is supposed to be a place where the unbaptized go, and it’s supposed to be pleasant, but individuals there are NOT connected with individuals who are baptized and designated to spend eternity in heaven.

I was baptized, and though I’m not running for saint hood, I expect to be sent to “heaven”. For reasons I will not go into here, Chrissy was NOT baptized. Consequently, according to the beliefs of most Christian sects, I would not be reunited with Chrissy, since we both would be in places exclusive of the other.

I cannot fathom this, nor would I be happy if that were the case. FAITH does not remedy this for me. (I suppose God could extinguish my memory of Chrissy, but that would be a trick I would consider evil.)

Chrissy never hurt a fly. He was an angel, and so were all the kids like him in the homes he was in (he had so many medical problems that my wife and I couldn’t care for him properly.)

So I don’t believe he would be “stuck” in Limbo, though some posit it is only a “temporary” holding area . . . similar to “Purgatory”. That’s all a little too esoteric for me. I believe there is just an “up” or “down”, period. Chrissy would go UP!!!

As far as family members of friends going “down”, well . . . I believe God is just, so if they are sent “down”, they earned it. Sounds harsh perhaps, but I don’t think I’d spend any time agonizing over it.

  1. If you answered yes to nine, are people who are oblivious to god and sin doomed for damnation?

See above on my views about Chrissy. I think that would answer your question here.

  1. Why couldn’t god simply forgive us for our sins, rather than sending Jesus down to die for them?

Not sure what you’re getting at here, but as asked I not only don’t have an answer for you, quite frankly it’s not something I would agonize over anyway.

However, I’m sure if some other Christian chooses to answer these questions, you’ll get an answer.

  1. How do you rationalize the passages which advocate for morally questionable acts, such as murder?

You use the word “rationalize” as if you think it’s necessary for Christians to fit a square peg into a round hole in order to believe. Here I’m wondering if you have “gotcha” motivation, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt at this point.

If you remember, I said that the Bible was written for tribes and times in the ME that were sometimes specific to local traditions and situations and no longer apply in some cases. One more reason why I don’t take passages literally.

I have no idea if you have a desired answer in mind, but if so, I suspect one who takes the Bible literally and one who believes that ALL writings apply to current times may be what you’re looking for.

  1. Why would god care if you worshiped him or not?

Here, you’re asking Christians to get into the mind of God. I don’t think you’re going to get any answer here from Christians. Atheists, maybe, but Christians, NO.

  1. Can god destroy all evil if he chooses to, if so, why doesn’t he?

Gods 'speriment with humans also was with giving them free will. He may have rolled the dice, walked away from the gaming table and thought, “Let’s see what they do on their own.” I have no idea what HE thought, because as I said, Christians don’t purport to be able to read God’s mind. That’s only my guess, and it’s in a human frame of reference anyway.

However, I think it’s pretty safe to assume he intended to give humans free will (if not, then the 'speriment went south on Him, and that would make Him no longer God.) So, with that safe assumption in mind, why would He even WANT to “destroy all evil”? Doing that would defeat the whole purpose of giving free will.

  1. Would you find it arrogant of me to demand you praise me every time I posted and ban you if you did not comply, as I claimed I was a deity with unfathomable powers. If you answered yes explain why this is arrogant.

Coupla’ things here.

First of all, you’re comparing yourself to God, so right out of the gate your question is not valid for Christians. Atheist, maybe. Christians, NO.

Comparing yourself to God IS arrogant to Christians.

But let’s get down to your phrasing: “demand you praise me”. I’m guessing you’re parroting those that believe heaven is nothing but “Kneel before Zod” moments. I don’t believe that. My idea of heaven is to be reunited with my loved ones, Chrissy would be a good example, be physically whole again, or at least be without pain or discomfort, continue to enjoy free will, and enjoy my friends and family forever.

Nevertheless, that is a strictly human interpretation, and I could be wayyyyy off. I don’t believe I am though.

If you’re looking for another “gotcha” moment, I think you’ll have to wait until someone with a “Kneel before Zod” belief responds. You won’t get it from me.

Why does this thread exist?

2 Likes

Nailed it, Wall, nailed it right on the head. They know God exists, in fact they are certain of it, they just cloud up their minds with their endless “intellectualism” they get from Google University.

Speaking of “intellectualisms” from Google University:

I put this in Random Thoughts yesterday:


Christianity has some fringe cults, and their use of Bible verses demonstrates very questionable interpretive skills, especially when they confuse descriptive Scripture with prescriptive.

**Describe **
1
: to represent or give an account of in words

**Prescribe **

1
: to lay down a rule


**
FC Wisely Replied: **

Actually, some who are opposed to Christianity altogether confuse/distort those.
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I Replied To FC (I’s having some fun, thats all, moreorless)

/Big Huge Grin … Exactly, FC!

They got their Doctor’s degree in hermeneutics from Google University :howler: and then later, after they went and looked up the word “hermeneutics” over at Merriam-Webster, they ventured forth into threads in the Faith And Beliefs Forum to hold forth as Resident Morons promoting descriptive Scripture as prescriptive Scripture, with all the calm intellectual assurance possessed by the mentally retarded who are blissfully unaware of their condition.

:freaked:

:slight_smile:

[quote=“Trekky0623, post:14, topic:38697”]
Why does this thread exist?
[/quote]I’m guessing that’s a rhetorical question, or you’re being facetious, or it’s an attempt at humor.

But in case it’s a genuine question, the OP said he/she wanted to determine the Christian “perception of Atheism” and clarify “any potential misconceptions”. That seems to be a reasonable goal, though I’m a little dubious that the OP can speak for all atheists . . . mainly because “all atheists” do not hold the same opinions.

Nevertheless, I’m interested to see if this can be done.

I was being humorous. The only thing this thread seems to be trying to accomplish is to antagonize Christians. There’re no arguments being made, no points. He’s asking question and relying on the answers to help make a case. And better yet, he knows what the answers will be.

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BobJam @ 13

I read every word of that post slow and carefully, enjoyed reading it, very interesting.

I hope you get a well thought out reasoned response. However, don’t hold your breath. Ha. /Grin

I’m gonna bet what you get back is stuff from Google University. They usually google “Whats wrong with the Bible” and then start copying and pasting. :freaked:

:cool:

Because the OP is too lazy to use the search feature to find the countless times that all his legitimate “questions” have been answered in great detail and all the times that his “questions” that are based on false Premises have been exposed as ignorant or irrelevant ramblings.

He/She is hoping that Christians will write long, in depth answers that He will summarily ignore by simply repeating his original statements as if they have not been challenged, addressed or refuted.

You cannot tell me that YOU are not familiar with this tactic…

2 Likes

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RET @ 19

/BIG HUGE ENORMOUS GRIN … Ha, its posts like that one, that perks up life in Webby World and puts smiles on faces :smile:.

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