Reason I believe athiesm is on the rise in the usa and europe.


I’m not Catholic btw but this is the reason as i see it. It all started with the 1400-1500’s when the Pope held a long standing view that Christians could not charge Christians interest on money loaned. This was not good for business so when Luther and other protestant fathers challenged the authority of the Pope, the wealthy boyers (wealthy land owners) saw this as a opportunity to discontinue the no interest laws. So in promoting the reformation and kicking Rome out, they improved their bottom-line.
On to western europe and the USA. The reformation/protestantism naturally leads to athiesm:
-turn back on church authority as the holder of true/right interp of the Bible->make interp of the bible up to the individual which means there is no true authority on interp->their are so many sects claiming to be the right interp all interp is relative to the observer->there are many books of faith out thier Koran, book of Mormon, Bible etc. so all religion is relative there is no right religion-> everyone is right therefore no one is right->why believe in God at all?

In my view the string of athiesm as a major player started with the reformation/protestant movement which was started for economic reasons.


I understand your premise, but do not concur.

A drift towards a Godless society IMO is the result of a far to easy life. As society prospers we see a drift towards the left further and further. Passing thru various stages on the way till the govt becomes complicit in the move. They do this when they see the opportunity for total control. On balance often the govt is the instigator in the leftward movement.

Leftists hate in order to succeed must transfer the allegiance and faith in a deity to the govt and soon thereafter if not concurrent to that of its leader. Obama sees himself as a demigod and in parallel the govt is taking over everything we know. How much salt in your fries, size of drink you can have, what your child has in his home packed lunch, along with a cradle to grave welfare system.

There are about 45 leftists dictatorships in the world today, interesting in that almost every one of them has the title of President, but they are mostly elected also.

Leftists are narcissist-ego driven who seem themselves as supreme beings rather than having faith in a deity. This comes from a soft life and they see themselves as successful. They attribute their success in life to themselves, they did it on there own. To counter this you crush the middle class while at the same time offering a welfare program for anyone who can fog a mirror, take the work requirement out and pay for their cell fone, give the cable TV and call it bread and circuses. This becomes the transfer program from a God centric or self centered life. A 'Don’t Worry be Happy" sing song of life. You get fact, you get lazy, health suffers and who do you turn to, the GOVT! No job, don’t worry be happy, stay at home, you can get a job when it gets better.

We have NEVER had a downturn last this long and there is no reason for it except govt policy and regulations which are in fact keeping it down. This recession is not as bad as the recession of Jimmy Carter, I was there, buying a home, cars and groceries, I KNOW! And any bit of research from the govt OWN records the numbers will tell the tale.

When times get bad many reach for any life raft they see rather than trust in themselves and pray to God…which the current vogue means you are weak.


I see what you are saying and agree. Another factor is most kids parents these days is that they just do not go to church. They are religious themselves but due to “life” cannot or do not try and find time to take themselves and children to church services of their choosing. My mother is a Christian but does not go to church. As such I never went to church. Hence today I am a Buddhist and not a Christian. My own spiritual musings lead me else where.


holy sheep: … :freaked: … :eusa_think:


Don’t be surprised. I announced this some time back on the forums and had been a Buddhist a few months before I announced it.


I actually think it has more to do with good entertainment for the common people. Here’s the thing. Back in the day, the Bible was full of all these amazing, epic tales and you could look forward to Sunday to go on an adventure. Sure, the adventure had moral lessons and life instructions, but it was interesting and compelling.

Now, the Bible is competing with The Avengers and Hunger Games and it’s not holding up well. So it losses that piece of compelling narrative. Now it’s a story you have to actively try to like, instead of just having it overtake you with wonder. With that impact gone, reading the Bible is lot more like studying for a test than reading a great story. It’s work.

This is also why I think Mega churches are the only places seeing growth, while the “Let’s sit in a pew and sing 400 year old songs with the church organist” are dying. They lack that entertainment factor.

The Hebrews always had to compete with other religions. And you saw this reflected in their style of worship. They used to sing and dance and get drunk for religious festivals. But they still lost a lot of people to religions that were more fun yet, with the orgies and the lack of priestly taxation.

The more choices that people are offered, the more a religion has to step up it’s game to compete. Christianity continues to evolve and it will continue to survive for a long time. But it will keep losing numbers because it’s absolute dominance is broken. This is why Muslim countries are so xenophobic. When you allow other ideas in, you lose dominance. And once it becomes normal and acceptable to pick any religion, the odds of your religion being the one people choose, will be based solely on how well you can appeal to that person on every level of their life.


Prosperity, joy and relative security inspire sloth and arrogance.
Sloth and arrogance inspire decadence.
Decadence leads to poverty, insecurity, depression and destruction.
Poverty, insecurity, depression and destruction lead to a search for higher truths and timeless principles.
A search for Truth and timeless principles leads to God.
A knowledge of God leads to Faith in God.
Faith in God leads to Prosperity, joy and Security.

This cycle has been repeating for as long as man has been fallen, it will continue until the redemption of man is concluded.


Reminds me of the similar political cycle (can’t remember who to attribute it to):

From bondage, to spiritual faith.
From faith, to great courage.
From courage, to liberty.
From liberty, to abundance.
From abundance, to complacency.
From complacency, to apathy.
From apathy, to dependence.
From dependence, back into bondage…


One thing is that while the people who answer “not religious” or “nothing in particular” on polls may be on the rise, atheism might not be. These are the people who are “spiritual, but not religious” or who don’t belong to any specific church. Also, it may simply be that more people are “coming out of the closet,” so to speak as non-belief becomes more accepted.


Such a horrible cycle. Though Buddhism has a similar cycle.


You and RET are both RIGHT ON in your views.

Based upon you post I would say we the US is well into the dependence cycle. The minorities in the US are mostly in the bondage cycle and they do not even know it. I think its criminal what the Dims have done to the Blacks in the US.

One of my (MANY) papers was on Welfare. It was a real eye opener. I interviewed some folks on welfare and I was amazed that some of them were 2nd generation…and this was in the 60’s! One family the only person to ever work was grandfather. The 2nd gen gal had 7 kids., be interesting to track them down today and see what has happened???


I dont believe it is on the rise…I believe their are those with a agenda to make it seem this way but I think more and more are finding God everyday. This is just a personal observation.


I believe you are right; the anti-religious - and particularly the anti-Christian - are becoming more and more vociferous. But Christian revival is occurring in many areas of the world, particularly in those areas where they have been down trodden and persecuted for many decades - centuries in some cases.


I kind of understand where the new deal programs stem from. The soldiers came back from WWII and felt society and the world owed them for their sacrifice. So FDR and the nation voted in the New Deal programs to look after the GI generation (GI Bill, SS, Medicare and other social nets.) I cant help but believe that part of the motivater stemed from the old saying: you never find Athiests in foxholes. That mixed with the GI generation’s since of national christian charity led to many of the safty nets we have today.

I believe with the rise of secularism and athiesm you have a fall of national christian charity, as we see today with the attack on many of our social safty nets. I mean, FDR could never had passed the New Deal programs without the popular support of the people and their elected representatives in Congress (many of whom were Republicans) and the approval of the Supreme Court. Back then we had a much stronger “christian-ethos” as a society then we do now.


WHOA there, you do not know what you are talking about…I have several good, very good friends where were combat soldiers in WWII, they are in their late 80’s and can assure you if you told them this, these old men would come out of there chairs like they were 20 and use your face for a floor mop…DON’T EVER say anything like this again on this forum…

They, my father before me and I and millions of other soldiers wrote a BLANK CHECK to the people of the US went we went off to war. YES I had some expectations, treat me with common courtesy, don’t call me a baby killer, don’t spit on me and if YOU REALLY want to do something, a handshake, a thank you and if you fell like giving, I take my coffee black, that is good enough for me and every soldier I have known in my nearly 70 years…and FYI I am a COMBAT DISABLED VETERAN.[LEFT][/LEFT]


You will always be able to find “some” like minded individuals, like you mentioned. I am not claiming that all aggreed with the New Deal. I am saying the the majority of congress, president, supreme court and the generation did to pass it and not overturn it or threaten to over turn it in the next election. There was not a response to the New Deal as there was when Obama Care passed. If anything, those qualifying for the New Deal social programs were expanded as time when on. I to am a Combat Disabled Veteran.

As a vet then you understand more then those who don’t join up to fight, how we naturally look after the man on our left and our right. We trust that they will do the same for us when the bullets hit the fan. If we are injured we trust that our fellow soldiers wont leave us out there to the wolves that they will risk what they have (life and limb) to save us as we would save them. Many of that generation carried that ethos to civilian life after the war. Its just that now unlike then, only 2% of the population has the backbone to serve in the military, so they don’t understand.


Not to mention that the New Deal took place between 1933 and 1936. The United States was neutral in World War II until at least the 1940s, and was officially not neutral only after Pearl Harbor in 1941. What World War II GIs were being helped in the New Deal if they didn’t even exist yet?


Same point could be made with the WW1 vets (WWI is often refered to as the forgotten war.) Actually, that simply punctuates my point. The WWII vets simply expanded the new deal rather then overturn it.


I think it probably has more to do with the Great Depression. That’s just my opinion though.



When man makes himself his ultimate arbiter of what is Truth it will eventually lead to self-worship, which is what atheism is. It is worship of the created not of the Creator.