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I have this tatooed on my left arm/shoulder. It goes from the top of my shoulder to 2 inches above my elbow. It stays covered by a polo shirt.


Health care worked much better when there was no “Health Care”, when there was no insurance, when doctors truly cared about their patients. I know there are still some of that last, but more and more, they are looking for the almighty dollar. There were doctors who died in debt, because they cared more about the welfare of their patients than collecting bills.

I remember hearing a story of a doctor who died - not owing money, in this case - but with a lot of patients whose debts he forgave. He marked them all “Paid in Full.” His heirs were going to try to collect these debts, but couldn’t, since they were marked “paid in full.”


Truly a good doctor, God rest his soul, but his heirs on the other hand ungrateful, greedy little things.(somethings i want to say about them but can’t)[SIZE=2] I things like that that make me mad, greedy brats.[/SIZE]


A remarkable account of a bygone age, Susanna.

A feature of any State-operated healthcare system is that its character is exactly the opposite to what you’ve described. The ‘personal touch’ between doctor and patient is something regulated for, trained for, everything is done as though the patient is part of a big machine.

In fact, this is the ultimate truth of the British NHS … it’s a conveyor-belt system - run and regarded as such. OK, so the issue of unpaid bills wouldn’t arise. But the flipside to that is that control passes from an individual regarded as one, to a mere impersonal service that sees a patient as a problem to fix … rather as an electrician might regard a nonfunctional television.

And besides … healthcare is rationed sometimes purely on grounds of what the State can afford.

Here’s one of a number of comparable examples I can cite …$1237761.htm

Quote …

***A letter in the Sunday Times penned by 25 of the country’s leading cancer experts has warned of the consequences of NHS ‘drug rationing’.

Professors in cancer medicine from across the country wrote to the paper following a decision by the National Institute of Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice) on kidney cancer patients. In draft guidelines issued earlier this month, Nice stated that certain cancer drugs were not value for money for patients.

Writing to the newspaper, the experts called the decision a “tragedy”, adding that developments in treatment could not be used to treat those with advanced kidney cancer.

They also called for a “radical change” in the criteria for deciding on the rationing of cancer drugs.

The experts wrote: "Once again Nice has shown how poorly it assesses new cancer treatments. Its economic formulae are simply not suitable for addressing cost effectiveness in this area of medicine. Mean survivals obscure the fact that some patients will obtain prolonged benefit from these drugs.

“It is essential that Nice gets its sums right. We have already seen distraught patients remortgaging their houses, giving up pensions and selling cars simply to buy drugs that are freely available to those using health services in countries of comparable wealth.”

The experts claimed that the UK spent similar amounts to European countries on health care in general but less than two thirds of the European average for cancer drugs.

They stated: “It just can’t be that everybody else around the world is wrong about access to innovative cancer care and the NHS right in rationing it so severely.”***


Well, I’m happy for you.

You may want to make sure that you maintain an excellent supply of polo shirts …


Oh, well, I figured you’d appreciate the Union Jack.

I got it in Australia on a port call while with the 31st MEU, in the USMC.


Originally Posted by Drummond
State-run healthcare means you put your health largely under the control of politicians who may wish to tinker with what they are ‘pleased’ to supply, in order to gain a selfish political advantage for themselves.

I ask: should healthcare become a political football, or actually a SERVICE provided for the sake of MEDICAL NEED ??

This is the ““crux”” of the problem as I see it, but not discussed in the current debate.



Point understood, then and now. Thanks for the thought.

To be honest, though … and although I still feel a certain lingering patriotism for ‘Blighty’ … this fails to take root in me to the extent that patriotism does so to Americans for their own country.

Britain is not what it once was. It’s had its cultural guts torn out of it by intermittent Socialist rule spanning several decades. And for all their recent much-vaunted, so-called ‘moderation’, the Labour Party these days is, in truth, especially extremist, especially committed to selling the whole meaning of the UK as an entity definable as an autonomous State (or small group of them) out to anyone they can.

They’ve done it by embracing ratification of the Lisbon Treaty, which hands powers of autonomy over to the EU (once all Member States likewise ratify it). They’ve done it by first allowing nearly-ungoverned immigration, followed up by institutionalised deference to whatever cultural differences the immigrants want to introduce here. They’ve done it by insisting that there’s something antisocial in even objecting to the invasions of those cultures, all at the cost of our own !!

… So I appreciate the thought, but … you see what I’m saying. Socialism, when given enough power over you, chucks it back in your face by outright betrayal. It kills nationalism and pride in one’s country.

In the fullness of time Obama will try something comparable with America.


Why are people posting in the sticky about the forum subsection rules? :confused:


Drummond, I am pleased you are a poster here at RO.

After reading the above, it hit me that this exact same thing is now happening to the great USA.

I only wish more Americans could read your enlightening posts.

I would sometimes wince when certain posters express concern that Obama and his cronies are hell bent on destroying America, but how can one come to any other conclusion after the policies presently being put in place.

Drummond, your experience may be our unfortunate future. :sad:



… er’m … :redface: :whistle:


Bucks, thank you ! Very much appreciated.

… actually, I took that same position long ago. I’ve migrated here from another American discussion forum, which I spent over a year on … with the chief intention in mind to show everyone just what has happened over in my part of the world, and where the blame lies for it all … AND to try to show what had to be avoided (namely, an Obama win !!) if America was to be spared our fate.

I didn’t achieve anything by the looks of it (it would’ve been an incredible miracle if I had, of course !!!) … Obama not only won, but by all accounts it was a generally popular win on both sides of the Pond.

But you still have a fierce independent streak as a people that I don’t believe will take the loss of your national identity lying down. You have your Constitution, which we had no precise equivalent of. You have gun ownership written into your very culture, which itself allows you to feel empowered as individuals. We don’t have any such comparable right here, except under exceptional circumstances … which takes our feeling of empowerment away from us. Anyone wanting to resolve problems, instinctively turns to a State-run authority for the power they need to achieve what you as individual Americans could very simply deal with in other ways.

Hope exists for you to a greater extent. Yours is a battle well worth fighting for, to win. You CAN win out … and I hope you do, of course. If my posts assist, then it’s my pleasure to contribute them.

Healthcare-socialism carried over from threadjack of announcement

[quote=“Drummond, post:20, topic:19189”]
My hope, goal, prayer … call it what you will … is that one day Socialism in all its guises will be swept clear off the face of this planet, to be universally regarded with the same disgust as Hitler’s NATIONAL SOCIALISM is today. It shouldn’t be forgotten, EVER … but it should be seen as the enslaving social cancer to the human spirit that it truly is.
[/quote]I salute you.

[quote=“Bullseyed, post:29, topic:19189”]
Why are people posting in the sticky about the forum subsection rules? :confused:
[/quote]You have a point. Closed. Will open a new thread with the last post, and set up links after I do.


Discusision continues at: