Just watch the History Channel show on Hannibal. Very interesting and enjoyed it, but something gnawed at me.
Hannibal was a BLACK MAN??? And his Army was Africans???
Well I turned to Google to help me: Did not take a days worth or research to discover what I thought, Hannibal was not black, nor did he have an “Army of Africans”.
I found this and he put it better than I:
“As a modern-day Lebanese and direct descendant of the Phoenicians, a.k.a. Canaanites, in their homeland of Lebanon, I feel obligated here to refute the pseudohistory being propagated by the lies, half truths and ignorance of extreme Afrocentrists being touted by many anti-white blacks in this comment section. In their search for an historic racial role model who they perceive could have halted the beginnings of European imperialism in the form of Republican Rome during the Bella Punica (Lat. tran. Phoenician Wars, not “Negro Wars”), they attempt to shamefully arrogate and racialize the annals to blacken our olive-skinned ancestor Hannibal, who in race was actually a Caucasoid of the Mediterranean extraction, like the majority of North Africans who were racially similar to the Phoenicians.”
Of course the blacks are claiming that he was, yet I could find nothing that supported this. There is a growing wave of Afrocentrism that is seeking to radically and racially change American and World history depicting blacks as a near master race and have done everything that man has accomplished.
Cornel West is one of the WORST of these revisionists. At various times, he has claimed that Egypt’s pharaohs were black (their mummy’s are, but its because of MOLD–not melanin) and that Napoleon shot the face of the Sphinx with a cannon because it had “negroid features” and he wanted to hide that fact.
I have a book of fiction, but considering the author of it does a lot of research in preparation for his fiction writing, this may be based on fact. It was about a black anthropologist (I think) claiming the human race started in Africa where he claimed the Garden of Eden was. He based his conclusion that the 4 rivers mentioned in Eden were in Africa. Well, I don’t know where the Pison and Gihon are or were, but the other two rivers were the Tigris and the Euphrates, and they’ve never been in Africa! Also, he believed the Canaanites were all black because they were descended from Ham, whose name means “black.” Yet, he also claimed that a black couple, with no white ancestry, could produce a white child. There was also a claim that David’s wife Bathsheba was black because “Sheba” was the name of a place in Africa. (In Hebrew, “Sheba” means “oath”, as the town of Beersheba means "well of the oath). Bathsheba means “Daughter of the oath.” She was also called “Bathshuah”, meaning “daughter of wealth.”
[quote=“Lord_Brennus, post:4, topic:48832”]
I mean, Hannibal could have been black but I think it’s unlikely.
[/quote] I find it VERY likely that he was black, considering A) the bust that of him shows the curly short (which was not in style for Europeans at the time) hair you commonly would see on blacks and B) He was born in Carthage, which is modern day Tunisia. That’s right, Carthage is Tunisia, that small country in AFRICA that lies between Libya and Algeria. What color would you think someone from AFRICA circa 240 BC would be?!?
The Carthaginian republic was one of the longest-lived and largest states in the ancient Mediterranean. Reports relay several wars with Syracuse and finally, Rome, which eventually resulted in the defeat and destruction of Carthage in the Third Punic War. The Carthaginians were Phoenician settlers originating in the Mediterranean coast of the Near East. They spoke Canaanite, a Semitic language, and followed a local variety of the ancient Canaanite religion.
Over time (during the Punic Republic of Carthage), Semitic Carthaginians inter-married some with the indigenous North African peoples, principally the Berbers (Amazigh). While African in a geographic sense, the Berbers were and are mainly Eurasian in ancestry rather than Sub-Saharan black.
IOW, Carthaginians were not blacks. As for the curly hair - ignoring the very real possibility that artists’ depictions of Hannibal were purely the artists’ imaginings - many Europeans have naturally curly hair. My and my wife’s ancestry is entirely European, and we and our children all have curly hair.
My “horse” in this race is historical accuracy, not any form of racism or racialism. One of my children has married a person of non-European ethnic heritage, and the possibility of another non-European child-in-law (or more) is high. I’m fine with that, always have been, and they were, are, and will be welcomed as family. This paragraph should not be necessary, but our culture being where it is …
Point 1: Its not whether he was Black, white or brown or even purple, if you don’t know, then we just go neutral or gray man and speak of his Army of Carthaginians. The show on TV which was good and I recommend it, wife even enjoyed it. His ethnic background should not have come into play, but sadly it did…and
Point 2: As he was portrayed as a Black and at every point in the show they spoke of “his African Army” (this was repeated over and over) so what we have is a subtle agenda being promulgated that he was a great black leader of superior tactics etc etc etc. This now begs the question, was he and his Army black or? Originally it made no difference to me and probably any viewer, but the point was continually pushed that it even raised a question in me…and at NO time in my life did I ever think or consider what color Hannibal was, even when I studied tactics in the Army schools did this EVER come up. But now I wanted to know so I began my Google and could find NO legit evidence that supported the History Channel agenda.
We are moving into some very dangerous times in America: My sister who worked in upper mgt at a major hospital was leaving work one eve and was on the elevator by herself until as the doors began to close a black worker jumped in. He told her he had been noticing her and had waited to to talk with her. Said he wanted to go out with her. She said she was not interested and that is when it began. “what is your problem, are you a racist?” NO I am not ( note she did not know him at all and over half of her employees were black to include her number 2 man who she promoted up thru the ranks). She stopped the elevator at the 1st floor where she knew there would be security guards and asked one of the guards to escort her to her car. The guy, filed a complaint against her citing she was racist. Of course it was investigated and (she guessed) when he told them he wanted to go out with her and she would not do it therefore she must be racist the investigation was over.
I was filed on as being a racist when I was in the Army. We had just undergone a week long training exercise in the field and upon returning I gave the afternoon off to all of those who when out. It was not much, as I released them at the 1:30 afternoon formation so it amounted to less than 4 hrs. So when they asked me what took place I said simple, there were no blacks that went on the field exercise, it was only whites, the blacks were either on sick call, time off, leave status, comp time status or other detail so they did not go, instead they were back where they slept in a nice warm bed every night unlike us in the cold and rain for a week.
But blacks have learned that intimidation works, how do you think that the MLK Federal Holiday came about? Blacks across the govt simple did not come to work that day, this held true in the Army, they just did not show up for duty and the Command would not go along with any repercussions. Thus they created a Fed holiday to pacify…
I once served in the Army with a Sergeant Major named Oneyear. (His father had changed it from Twelve Moons) His mother was Anglo of Irish extraction. Every time one of the blacks in the unit popped off about someone being “racist” he’d say that they have no concept of what racism is until they’ve been raised as a half-breed on an Indian reservation. (His native American half was Ogalala Sioux.) Usually shut them up. He was the finest senior NCO I served with in 8 years of active duty.
The military is a place where all the RACISM!! cries really get put in perspective.
In San Diego, we had, of course, a lot of Mexican-Americans, a few actual Mexicans; a lot of Filipinos, some Indians, many blacks…even a few Jews.
I was in X-Division. Admin. The Yeomen (clerks) and Masters-at-Arms (ships’ police) were in that section.
The MA LPO was Mexican. I don’t know if he got into the United States before he enlisted or not; but he spoke with a thick Chicano accent - and spoke fluent Mexican Spanish.
We also had a Navajo as a yeoman. Anglo name; English was normal Southwest American accent.
And…BOY…did the Mexican guy hate the Indian. Called him “Sitting Bull” behind his back. Frankly, I couldn’t see much difference in features, but MA1 Hernandez sure did. And mentioned them every time YN2 Sitting Bull wasn’t around.
And BOTH of these guys had noting but derision towards the “flips” - who ran Supply; many of which were Mess Specialists.
The Filipinos, meantime, DESPISED the blacks. What they’d say about the blacks, openly in front of their own Filipino LPOs and chiefs…I wouldn’t dare say drunk to my friends in the Enlisted Club.
And of course the blacks hated everybody. Except the one-in-ten who didn’t have time for all that hatred…we had some very-good team players around who just happened to be black. One of them was building a business for after discharge - a franchised janitorial service company. With his wife working it full time and hiring help, he was bringing home about $5k a month.
But…yeah. All that race hatred…IN AMERICA. Where hateful Leftists have taken over the schools.
[quote=“Devilneck, post:11, topic:48832”]
Dude, by your logic, Egyptians and the Jews would be black.
No. Middle Eastern aren’t black. where was carthage - Bing
[/quote] Point of fact… Ancient Egyptians (which is around the time we are talking about) WERE BLACK. Look at some of their own drawings. All your link proves is that Carthage WAS in Africa, not the Middle East, but AFRICA.
[quote=“RanmaMOJ, post:14, topic:48832”]
Point of fact… Ancient Egyptians (which is around the time we are talking about) WERE BLACK. Look at some of their own drawings. All your link proves is that Carthage WAS in Africa, not the Middle East, but AFRICA.
[/quote]:banghead:So many statues and proof that egyptians were not black and their art does not reflect negro features.
Are you trying to look silly, R-MOJ? Carthage was in what is now Tunisia, over half the width of North Africa away from Egypt. Egypt was irrelevant to the question of Hannibal Barcar’s ethnic origins. My first link stated that the settlers - the rulers - of Carthage were a Semitic people, Caucasians from from western Asia (specifically, from what is now Lebanon. My second link stated that the indigenous people around Carthage - with whom the Semitic Carthaginians intermarried to some degree, and with who they were sometimes allied, and sometimes fought - were also of Caucasian Asiatic rather than African origins.
By the the time Hannibal Barcar was born, in the middle of the 3rd Century BC, Egypt had been ruled by the Greek Ptolemaic dynasty for almost a hundred years, and a couple of centuries before that, by the Persian Empire. And the 5 centuries before the Persians was a mix of Libyan (= Berber), Nubian (Sahel “black” Africans, at last!), native (sometimes as Assyrian puppets) rule. While Egypt of the mostly native-rule dynastic period (the foreign invaders/rulers between the Middle and New Kingdoms were Asiatic Semites) was not prejudiced along skin color lines, and there were Sahelan “black” Africans in Egyptian society (including in marriage), they were what we would now call immigrants, from Nubia (modern Sudan). Ancient Egyptians were of Asiatic, origins, similar to that of the Berbers.
The whole Out of Africa myth - whether of Ancient Egypt or regarding Hannibal Barcar - is silly and false. Why the need to appropriate the histories of Ancient Egyptians and Carthaginians for an ethnic group that was largely not present in either civilization?
The Carthaginians colonized the southern coast (and maybe more) of Spain (e.g. Cartagena). Are there claims yet to come that the ancient Spanish people were black? Silliness begetting ludicrosity?
[quote=“Devilneck, post:17, topic:48832”]
North East Africa is part of the middle east. It’s Arabic, Egyptian.
Do you count Libya as part of the middle east? It’s in Africa. So is Egypt. So was Carthage.
[/quote] NOW it is, remember that we are talking about MORE THAN TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO!!! A time when there weren’t many ships crossing the Mediterranean. Heck, Asia didn’t even have much contact with Africa for another almost 500 years AFTER the time we are talking about. Keep in mind that the ONLY reason that Egypt, Libya and North Eastern African (Which BTW, Tunisia is NORTH CENTRAL Africa, not NORTH EAST. Try looking on a map) is NOW considered part of the Middle East and many of the people are considered Arabic is because of the Sasian Empire, which ruled much of the area that is now Egypt (but not quite to where is now Libya) which controlled the Persian Empire from 224-651 AD.
Oh, BS. The Phoenicians sailed and settled the Med for a thousand years before the time of the Punic Wars. The Berbers traveled through the Sahara for centuries before THAT trading in SALT, of all things. Carthage was NOT black. Wake up and smell the coffee!