Right vs Right?


#81

Haha. I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. I think there is a very American centric view of the world, though I think there is some justification for that. When you go to Inda or China, or Nepal or Norway (you get the point), you will find places that advertise in English or speak English. OUtside of ethnic communities, you don’t find that here in the US. US culture has pervaded much of the world, so it’s not all that surprising that Americans have an American centric view of the world.

Apologize? No, being American is not something you can do to other people (by definition you can’t describe actions using nouns). If anyone should apologize for anything it’s for how people treat others. But that’s done on a more or less individual basis.


#82

I just happen to know he’s from there, from way back when he first registered.


#83

Oh . . .OK.


#84

A safe answer for a fence sitter.

My son, who is an attorney, will respond thusly whenever asked a question:

“Depends on the facts and circumstances.”

You guys drive me nuts with that safe answer stuff.

While we’re on the topic of being in the middle, you have characterized yourself as NOT the typical Democrat.

Since today’s “typical” Democrat is an extreme left wing (read “lunatic fringe”, i.e. BernieBot) SJW Greenie Socialist (they’ve taken over the party . . . not so?), may I assume that’s NOT how you would characterize yourself?

Would you characterize yourself as a “moderate” Democrat?


#85

I agree.

I don’t characterize myself. I try to look at the facts and circumstances and judge accordingly.

If I were to draw a “political compass” it might look like this:

In the absolute center is the absolute belief in zero regulation

Around that is minimalist government and so on.

Now I threw some labels in. You might object, it’s really not that important. What matters is that you start from a position of zero government regulation and movement in any direction is an increase in the amount of government regulation.

I’d put you and several others just outside the “Classical Liberal” circle in the socially and economically right quadrant. For me, I’d place myself almost directly opposite in the lower left quadrant.

That’s not to say I don’t embrace other point’s of veiw…but if we are trying to generalize.

Now, you can call that whatever you like. I embrace ideas on the left socially and perhaps economically. I believe in the private means of ownership of property and business, but I also believe in laws and regulations that benefit labor because I believe that equity (not equality) makes for a stronger nation.

So you call me what you want…


#86

Don’t know about others, but I call it the wishy-washy left of center.


#87

You cut me deep Dave, real deep…lol


#88

I like this political compass. A lot, I think. it seems to match really well with how I view other packages of political values. You know where I live on that map :wink:

And this made me lol


#89

Thanks, where would you put me?


#90

One of the things I like about this is it doesn’t contrast Libertarian (Classical Liberalism) against authoritarianism like the more common “Nolan” model (the one that has authoritarian at the top, Libertarian at the bottom and left and right social axis to the left and right,

The fact is that the left and the right both support regulation. Making laws that make slavery illegal or creating laws that protect it both use the government to promote a point of view, they are both authoritarian. This compass not only displays a person’s authoritarian tendencies but what kind of authoritarian tendencies, left or right…


#91

But it has no place for the ultimate authoritarian, which it really needs there to contrast the anarchist – so it really must be a globe with two poles and 360+ longitudes for various packages of political values. I think the entire edge of your map functions as that though…the ultimate form of rules governing social and economic freedom (Which I believe are intertwined and not separate concepts at all).


#92

Exactly, the center and the edge are the extremes.


#93

Personally, I think that using “authoritarianism” to keep people OUT of slavery is a GOOD thing. “Authoritarian?” Yes, but for a generally-accepted GOOD. That has been a characteristic of the RIGHT. It was the LEFT that insists on keeping people in thrall…first to the plantation owners and of late to the largesse of the government.


#94

Of course, it is. The point is that using the government to enforce certain political and economic ideas isn’t the province of any particular ideology.

I think paying people a minimum wage is generally a good thing and support laws that enforce it. Would you call that bad? Should companies be allowed to pay as little as they can?

What about child labor?

Don’t miss the point, left and right have authoritarian views, the question is only what kinds of rules you believe the government should enforce, which of course comes back to the values you hold and how those values shape moral systems you support.

Thanks for the chuckle. I’m not going to dignify your assertion with a response except to say that even if it were true, it makes no difference to me today what the “left” of the past did. For example, some early Leftists were involved in such activities as vandalizing factories and destroying machines, which they saw as a threat to their humanity and livelihood. They were known as Luddites. That has nothing to do with the left wing movement of today.

But please, spare me the “moral historical superiority” of the right. It’s laughable at best.


#95

It’s only “laughable” if you don’t believe that conservatism is somehow “right” and liberalism is somehow “wrong.” And, I’m NOT talking about what you call “classical liberalism.” I’m talking about “liberalism” as today’s leftists practice it…Ultra-authoritarianism including an unshakable belief that THEY know what’s best for everyone else, regardless of anyone else’s opinion.


#96

Look if you want me to agree that there are some on the left that support ideas that are “wrong”. I can do that I have plenty of problems with the “left” and some of the ideas they want supported by the government. I argue almost daily on an FB page called “Progressive Activists” and some of their s**t is bazaar and messed up.

IMO, some “right” ideas are good and some are not. Some left ideas are good and some are not, some libertarian ideas are good, some are not.


#97

Thanks for the laugh!
ba·zaar
bəˈzär/Submit
noun
a market in a Middle Eastern country.

a fundraising sale of goods, typically for charity.

a large shop selling miscellaneous goods.

OR,

bi·zarre
bəˈzär/Submit
adjective
very strange or unusual, especially so as to cause interest or amusement.

I’m gonna assume autocorrect gotcha


#98

Care to enlighten us about what “left ideas” are good?


#99

First, I said IMO (in my opinion).

Second, I don’t think you really need me to enumerate a laundry list of ideas I think emanate from the left side of the political spectrum. I think my time here and my opinions written (many which are left-leaning ideas) will suffice.


#100

So your answer to my question is “No?”