Rodney King George Floyd

They’re held to a lower standard they can’t be sued for malpractice or gross injury on the job no other job operates that way. I’d be for the same standard You choose to become a law enforcement officer or Judge now you have special rights and protections not afforded to other industries. Pharmacists, Lawyers, Doctors, Engineers have to carry malpractice insurance why not the police and judges?

I don’t disagree. I just believe that they are held to a higher standard. A much higher standard than 90%+ of the people who are b****ing about them.

Why are they only profession that can not be sued alongside Judges and District Attorneys? Is that held higher or lower?

Since when have civil rights violations suits not been filed against the police for false arrest?

In the United States, qualified immunity is a legal principle that grants government officials performing discretionary functions immunity from civil suits unless the plaintiff shows that the official violated "clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known

Only 3 states have rejected that legal doctrine cooked up from the bench. Now you can sue the city and maybe get a small settlement but a lot of times the city invokes a different immunity that is a little bit less hard to get around. It’s easier to sue the city with sovrigen immunity. In fact I sue the licensing board for police MCOLEs its literally easier to sue the private accrediting agency than the officer himself.

So you’re saying individuals rather than the police/government.

I actually don’t have a problem with that. No one would be a cop if they had to live in fear of being sued if they didn’t toe a perfect line. It’s an unrealistic expectation to demand that everyone get everything right in every last situation.

There has to be a middle ground we could agree on between holding them to perfection and allowing them to get away with homicide.

And I believe we’re already there. Aren’t cops going to jail for crimes, including murder, and haven’t they been doing so for pretty much the history of the country? There’s more accountability nowadays, true; and also a lot of politically-driven hostility to cops. This won’t end well.

no make it so we can sue them like any profession. Doctors, Lawyers, Paramedics are all open to lawsuits they are the only ones outside of judges, DA’s that go Scott free during abuse.

Nope, for the reasons I already gave. Their profession is too tough as it is.

Well you are in a small minority of people viewing that losing your right to sue is a good idea anywhere.

Query: is there any city in the US – liberal-run, conservative-run, whatever – where the police have an acceptable record of dealing with the public?

Minneapolis Post Floyd has done far reaching reforms.

What reforms did they make?
What’s the crime rate like there now?
And is the community where most of the violent criminals come from happy with the police now?

Police accountability board. qualified immunity loss. civilian review of use of force. higher starting wages to attract talent not just armed meat. As far as crime rates not raising as bad as other Midwest cities. Individual criminals not available for comment as they would out themselves.

Proof, please.

If this is so, it needs to be widely reported and emulated.
Speaking as someone who considers himself on the Right, I can tell you that there are three strands of thought about the police on our side. Perhaps ‘thought’ is not the proper word, since we’re thinking more of reflexive reaction.

(1) There is a small part of the Right who are strongly anti-police. I’m not talking about really exotic creatures like anarcho-capitalists, but rather of ordinary people, or at least people who comment on right-wing websites (such as militia sites). I don’t get the impression that they have thought about it very much … rather, they have had unfortunate interactions with the justice system, sometimes initiated by an ex-wife. And some of them may not be real rightists at all, but provocateurs, Slavic or otherwise.

Readers of RO are probably familiar with the saying, ‘A conservative is a liberal who’s been mugged.’ The liberal response is, ‘A liberal is a conservative who’s been arrested.’ Some truth to both, no doubt.

(2) Mainstream conservatives. Most of these aren’t people who read Burke or subscribe to National Review. In fact, they are the ones for whom the observation “liberals read, conservatives watch TV” is directed. Their reflex response is ‘Back the Blue’, but in cases where there is obvious police misconduct, they do wish, perhaps reluctantly, to see impartial justice done. The readers among them have a more elaborate theoretical justification for being wary of the state – ‘dangerous servant, fearsome master’ – and also understand that police misconduct actually serves the far Left and undermines respect for legitimate authority, as well as being wrong in principle. The George Floyd case is an example.

All of these people know what a horrible, depraved social environment the police who have to work in the inner city Black areas are in.

For a frank, unPC description of this environment, read this book: – or anything else by Colin Flaherty.

Some far Left groups demand ‘Cops Out of the Ghetto’ and that’s one Leftist demand I can support wholeheartedly.

(3) There is a grouping on the Right which, in practice, are simply uncritical supporters of the police. The other day I read an essay by one of these people on the recent mass murder in Buffalo, and the author wrote of George Floyd that ‘he died while in police custody’. Ha! That’s like saying the people gassed at Dachau ‘died while in internment’. [What I found astounding about Derek Chauvin, the man who killed Floyd, was that he was happy to be photographed, grinning, while kneeling on Floyd’s neck. There were a few paranoid people on the Right who claimed that he must have been a paid actor, and the whole thing a set up. Nope, there really are people that stupid.]

Note that as America spirals down, hardline positions on both sides will increase in popularity. You don’t tend to criticize people who are shooting at the same enemy you are. Too bad, but that’s life.

Crap. Absolute crap. And here’s why:

You have consistently dodged the biggest issue I have towards American Cops. And I know your first instinct is to say “If you don’t like it, don’t come here”, right? Here’s the thing - my attitude towards American Cops are exactly the same as my in laws who are American. And people like yourself, Pappadave, Tucker Carlson et cetera have never addressed the biggest concern white people like my in laws have towards cops.

One of the examples I provided earlier in this thread involved a guy called Mike Gugino. There were no negros involved at all. Your first instinct was to not get involved in a tit for tat argument (which I agree, that is unproductive), but then tried to deflect to protests about cops killing negros or some such.That’s not the reason American leftists are protesting about cops, and ironically I think I know personally more leftist Americans than you do.

Hey, have you noticed how my response is two paragraphs in and I still haven’t told you why most left leaning Americans are attending BLM rallies? That sounds scummy - it’s like I’m making a partisan point and “if you don’t know what I’m talking about then clearly you’re the problem” passive-aggressive BS. So I guess I should spell it out.

The problem isn’t bad cops doing bad things. The problem is that every single time a bad cop does a bad thing, the first instinct every so called good cop has is to cover it up. That’s the problem. George Floyd got killed. Every “good cop” decided to sit back and watch. And then provide a statement that was clearly false. And then initially not press charges. But George Floyd was a negro, so let’s take blacks out of the equation. I’m white. Mrs Patooka is white with red hair and blue eyes. Mrs Patooka’s in laws are also extremely white. Let’s use an example that bothers them, seeing as they are Americans

Mark Gugino is a 70-something old white man. He attended a protest in Buffalo (really, that’s how you yanks name towns?) and cops cracked his skull. I provided the video earlier, clearly it isn’t NSFW. Clearly there could be an issue with cops cracking the skull of a 70 year old. But let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. Then the “good cops” lied about the incident. They then would have gotten away with it if the video wasn’t made public. When the cop involved got charged, what did “the good cops” do? They resigned in protest. You know, because having consequences to actions shouldn’t apply to cops. Guess what else “the good cops” gave the officer who cracked a 70 year old white man’s skull in? Go on guess. Did you guess a standing ovation?

And that’s the problem. That’s what people are protesting against. Not that Bad cops do bad things - it’s that all cops defend them no matter what. And for some reason the Pappadaves/Tucker Carlsons/Blue lives matter people will avoid that discussion no matter what.

Proof, please; and not just anecdotal.

Do ‘good cops’ tend to defend ‘bad cops’? Do ‘good soldiers’ tend to defend ‘bad soldiers’? Do ‘good teachers’ tend to defend ‘bad teachers’?

(Here I’m using ‘bad’ to mean ‘bad towards the public/the people they should be serving’, not ‘bad towards other members of their profession’.)

Is it the case, as Adam Smith declared, that ‘People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the publick, or in some contrivance to raise prices’?

Yes. And you can try to combat this, and you should, but, human nature being what it is, you will never eliminate it. Since the police, unlike teachers, have the power of life and death in their hands, we have to be especially serious about scrutinizing them and holding them to account. But those who do so should spend a month riding in the back of a squad car.

And how about soldiers? Don’t they have the power of life and death? Shouldn’t they be held accountable? In theory, yes. But since the victims of the misbehavior of the soldiers of country A, are seldom the citizens of country A, it seldom happens.