Or the right.
What makes you “privately” believe these women’s tales? There’s NOTHING in his 40+ years of public service SINCE that would even HINT at pedophilia. He married a younger woman. So what? So did I and we’ve now been faithfully married for over 51 years, and there has NEVER been a predilection towards pedophilia. Frankly, when I first laid eyes on my future wife, who I met on a blind date, I was a bit AFRAID of her because she LOOKED 'way too young for me to be dating. She was, in fact 19, but she weighed 85 pounds and looked much younger. She was 20 when we married and I was almost 25. She STILL doesn’t weigh 100 pounds and looks much younger than her 71 years. Only TWO of the 5 or 6 women who are now accusing Roy Moore of “improper behavior” have admitted that he did ANYTHING physical towards them…including kissing them…and one of those women’s own family say she’s lying about it. The other woman says Moore once “put his hand on my thigh.” REALLY? THAT’S now sexual assault? If so, then I’M guilty of “sexually assaulting” the DOZEN or so women I dated while in high school!
Except “the right” does NOT use these tactics. It’s strictly a phenomenon of the LEFT. Can’t beat a conservative politician legitimately on the issues? Then trash his character with false accusations. No liberal can win legitimately on the issues that most Americans care about, which is WHY President Trump won last year. They KNEW about the accusations being leveled about him by the left and THEY DIDN’T CARE. What they cared about, was what he was promising to do to make their lives easier and safer. “Open borders,” unrestrained immigration, weakening the military, raising taxes, unrestricted government spending and burdensome, useless “regulations” don’t do either of those things.
Sincere congratulations on your marriage of 51 years. As far as my personal beliefs, I don’t think to debate it here will bring about anything groundbreaking. I’ve said that my actions, despite my personal beliefs will be to continue to support the idea that Judge Moore deserves due process as a top priority. Given your alleged lack of principled behavior from the left I’d think you’d think that was a HUGE step in the right direction and if all on the left believed as I do, that would constitute a huge improvement according to you (baby steps).
Having said that, would you say the same is true of our President who has admitted (arguably bragged about) walking through dressing rooms of mostly naked very young women and of course grabbing and kissing them without permission?
Do you think that all 18 women that we know of are all lying too? Do you believe there are no grounds to believe that these accusations are possible?
That’s rich and given the absolute total ridiculousness of that claim I’m not even going to touch it. If you believe it I suggest stepping outside the bubble you’ve encased yourself in.
Can you show us ONE instance where a conservative has falsely accused a liberal opponent of sexual assault in order to win an election? Just ONE will do.
Do these “tactics” of making accusations before a person is allowed due process only apply to making statements with respect to sexual indiscretions, or does it include all accusations of a person having committed a crime without the presumption of innocence?
You’re holding your breath waiting for an obviously guilty DEMOCRAT sexual predator to resign, right?
Talk to me when Al Franken is facing criminal charges FOR THE CRIMES OF WHICH HE IS OBVIOUSLY GUILTY… Until then, you can feel free to (Edited by RWNJ). WHERE IS THE LYNCH MOB FOR AL FRANKEN?WHERE IS THE LYNCH MOB FOR AL FRANKEN?WHERE IS THE LYNCH MOB FOR AL FRANKEN?WHERE IS THE LYNCH MOB FOR AL FRANKEN?WHERE IS THE LYNCH MOB FOR AL FRANKEN?WHERE IS THE LYNCH MOB FOR AL FRANKEN? (x100 – Also edited by RWNJ)
Sexual predator? What exactly do you think Franken is guilty of?
And no, I don’t think he should resign if he doesn’t want to, but I’d say the same if it was a Republican, though I do support full investigations.
Here is a full transcript of his resignation speech, exactly what does he admit?
A couple months ago, I felt that we had entered an important moment in the history of this country. We were finally beginning to listen to women about the ways in which men’s actions affect them. The moment was long overdue. I was excited for that conversation and hopeful that it would result in real change that made life better for women all across the country and in every part of our society. Then the conversation turned to me. Over the last few weeks, a number of women have come forward to talk about how they felt my actions had affected them. I was shocked. I was upset. But in responding to their claims, I also wanted to be respectful of that broader conversation. Because all women deserve to be heard and their experiences taken seriously. I think that was the right thing to do. I also think it gave some people the false impression that I was admitting to doing things that in fact I haven’t done. Some of the allegations against me are simply not true. Others I remember very differently. I said at the outset that the ethics committee was the right venue for these allegations to be heard and investigated and evaluated on their merits. That I was prepared to cooperate fully and that I was confident in the outcome.
You know, an important part of the conversation we have been having the last few months has been about how men abuse their power and privilege to hurt women. I am proud that during my time in the Senate, I have used my power to be a champion of women. And that I have earned a reputation as someone who respects the women I work alongside every day. I know there is a different picture of me painted over the last few weeks, but I know who I really am. Serving in the United States Senate has been the great honor of my life. I know in my heart that nothing I have done as a senator, nothing has brought dishonor on this institution. I am confident that the ethics committee would agree.
Nevertheless, today I am announcing that in the coming weeks I will be resigning as member of the United States Senate. I, of all people, am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of the sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party.
But this decision is not about me. It’s about the people of Minnesota. It’s become clear that I can’t both pursue the Ethics Committee process and at the same time remain an effective senator for them. Let me be clear. I may be resigning my seat, but I am not giving up my voice. I will continue to stand up for the things I believe in as a citizen and as an activist. But Minnesotans deserve a senator who can focus with all her energy on addressing the challenges they face every day. There is a big part of me that will always regret having to walk away from this job with so much work left to be done. But I have faith that the work will continue because I have faith in the people who have helped me do it. I have faith in the dedicated, funny, selfless, brilliant young men and women on my staff. They have so much more to contribute to our country. And I hope that as disappointed as they may feel today, everyone who has worked for me knows how much I admire and respect them. I have faith in my colleagues, especially my senior senator, Amy Klobuchar. I would not have been able to do this job without her guidance and wisdom. I have faith or at least hope that members of this senate will find the political courage necessary to keep asking the tough questions and hold this administration accountable and stand up for the truth.
I have faith in the activists who organized to help me win my first campaign and who have kept on organizing to help fight for the people who needed us. Kids facing bullying, seniors worried about the price of prescription drugs, Native Americans who have been overlooked for far too long. Working people who have been taking it on the chin for a generation. Everyone in the middle class and everyone aspiring to join it. I have faith in the proud legacy of progressive advocacy that I have had the privilege to be a part of. I think I have probably repeated these words 10,000 times over the years. Paul Wellstone’s famous quote, the future belongs to those who are passionate and work hard. It’s still true. It will always be true. And most of all, I have faith in Minnesota. A big part of this job is going around the state and listening to what people need from Washington. But more often than not, when I’m home, I am blown away by how much Minnesota has to offer the entire country and the entire world. The people I had the honor of representing are brilliant and creative and hardworking and whoever holds this seat next will inherit the challenge I have enjoyed for the last 8.5 years being as good as the people you serve.
This has been a tough few weeks for me. But I am a very, very lucky man. I have a beautiful healthy family that I love and that loves me very much. I’m going to be just fine. I just would like to end with one last thing. I did not grow up wanting to be a politician. I came to this relatively late in life. I had to learn a lot on the fly. It wasn’t easy and it wasn’t always fun. I’m not just talking about today. This is a hard thing to do with your life. There are a lot of long hours and late nights and hard lessons and there is no guarantee that all your work and sacrifice will ever pay off. I won my first election by 312 votes. Could have easily gone the other way. Even when you win, progress is far from inevitable. Paul Wellstone spent his whole life working for mental health parity and it didn’t pass until six years after Paul died.
This year, a lot of people who didn’t grow up imagining that they would ever get involved in politics have done just that. They have gone to their first protest march or made their first call to a member of Congress or maybe even taken the leap and put their names on a ballot for the first time. It can be such a rush. To look around a room full of people ready to fight alongside you. To feel that energy. To imagine that better things are possible. You too will experience setbacks and defeats and disappointments. There will be days when you will wonder whether it’s worth it. What I want you to know is that even today, even on the worst day of my political life, I feel like it’s all been worth it. Politics, Paul Wellstone told us, is about the improvement of people’s lives. I know that the work I have been able to do has improved people’s lives. I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.
For a decade now, every time I would get tired or discouraged or frustrated, I would think about the people I was doing this for and it would get me back up on my feet. I know the same will be true for everyone who decides to pursue politics that is about improving people’s lives. And I hope you know that I will be fighting alongside you every step of the way. With that, Mr. President, I yield the floor.
There’s no mob because his actions in his career in support of women matter. Because he didn’t blame the victims and the accusations against him are for allegedly placing his hands on the side of a boob/s. In another instance, he pretends to grab a woman’s boobs for a laugh and then there’s the claim that he kissed a woman during a rehearsal that required them to kiss, though not as she claims he did.
Moore is alleged to have had inappropriate relations with a 14-year-old girl.
Trump admits to grabbing women by their genitals without their permission and stalking through the dressing rooms of pageant contestants in their teens and twenties to “inspect the place”. Give me a break.
But you’re going to equate the alleged coping a feel with alleged pedophilia and self-admitted sexual assault?
As I said, they should ALL be investigated and let the evidence determine their fates.
Though it should be noted that Democrats forced their colleagues to resign. Republicans aren’t demanding the resignation of Rep. Farenhold who used taxpayer money to pay out $84k in settlements.
Doesn’t matter if they’re lying or not. Trump IS President Trump so the “tactic” obviously didn’t work in his case. Now that dozens of liberals have lost their jobs–to OTHER liberals, by the way–because they’ve ADMITTED to sexual improprieties, these women are again being dredged up to try and convince Americans that the President “should resign, too.” Won’t work.
President Trump HAS never admitted to sexual assault. In that “locker room” conversation, he was speculating about “celebrities” being able to do those things with impunity…and he was apparently right in light of what’s been revealed about so many so-called “celebrities.” They got away with all that stuff for literally decades until it started getting “fashionable” to OUT them. Kissing someone unexpectedly is NOT “sexual assault.” It might be unwanted kissing, but it’s NOT “sexual assault” by any stretch of the term.
Secondly, Roy Moore is NOT a “pedophile” regardless of how badly you lefties would LIKE him to be so characterized. He ALSO is accused by one of his “accusers” of mere “unwanted kissing.” The woman who says he raped her isn’t believable. Even her own FAMILY says she’s a liar.
What he admitted and then backpedalled on in that speech you quoted. I don’t remember the specifics, but I heard it from a news source I trust.
It only matters if it was with genuine intent to do good and not political gamesmanship. I don’t regard Al Franken as anything like genuine.
Wait a minute . . . wait a minute.
On the one hand, you say that you’ve drawn no conclusion, then the next moment you say that it’s “probable” that he is guilty.
And you say you haven’t drawn a conclusion? Looks to me that you have:
And this also:
Sounds like a conclusion to me (your “private” opinion).
And you’re attempting to fence sit by saying your “public” notion is to draw no conclusion, yet you have done so.
And then right away you withdraw from any “debate” on your “private” opinion. Is that not an EVASION tactic?
And then again we have this:
Once again, that sounds like a conclusion to me.
No debate? That’s fine with me. Looking at your words, I don’t see any need for . . . “debate”.
To say he was talking about himself to deny that is ridiculous. I notice you didn’t address his bragging to Howard Stern about walking through dressing rooms with teens and 20-year-old pageant contestants half dressed. Now you’re going to tell me it’s ok because it’s not against the law?
Having said that, I realize at this point you will rationalize anything Trump does. You are the person Trump was talking about when he said he could shoot someone and people like you would rationalize it away. If you can’t be honest with yourself and are just going to rationalize what he did to prevent having to come to terms with what he did, I don’t see that there is any more to say about Trump, you can’t be convinced that people you support can do any wrong. And there is the problem.
As far as kissing someone without their permission I would agree it’s not “rape” and it shouldn’t be treated as such. One of the terms that radicals on the left use is “rape culture” and for what it’s worth I rail against people on the left that equate anything a man does to a woman, including asking her out, ass rape. It’s stupid and insulting to women who have experienced actual rape. Having said that, men shouldn’t try to kiss women they don’t know and it should be considered some form of assault if it can be shown the kiss was attempted without provocation (would you want a strange man kissing your daughter?)
As far as Franken, he is accused of putting his hands to close to a woman’s boob, sliding his hand down on a womens asses, trying to kiss people (which of the three accusations- two made anonymously- 1 of them said they avoided, and the best one of all is that he slid his hand down on a woman’s (apparently) bare waist and “grabbed my flesh” the other being Mrs. Tweeden who was rehearsing a kiss for a USO show and accuses him of deeply kissing her. Now I don’t know about you, but a woman I don’t want to kiss me tries to put her tongue in my mouth I KEEP IT CLOSED. Pretty sure any person’s jaw is stronger than another person’s tongue.
My wife is a tiny thing. She’s about 105lbs. I’m 6’1 and when she stands beside me and I wrap my arm around her like were posing for a photo, I can barely reach the side of her boob without being obvious (I know because I wanted to see if Franken could do it), after all the husband is taking the photo (below). Now, I’m sure about you, but Al Franken makes an obvious grab for my wife’s (or my daughters) boob and he’s getting my fist in his face.
In Franken’s case, we have actual photos. The photos we have the women are smiling and in one case the woman is leaning in (she is leaning in, not him) pressing her cheek to his smiling her ass off. Doesn’t look to me like someone disgusted that she’s been groped. Looks like someone who is thrilled to be taking a picture with a celebrity and politician. Here’s a reminder:
Now does all that mean he is innocent? Nope, I still support due process more than I believe my own feelings in the matter. Publically (outside of conversations like these) I’d say that Moore and Franken both deserve due process and that I’m withholding judgment until the evidence is acquired. Am I rationalizing as I’ve accused you? I don’t think so, but I’ll let you tell me.
I gave you my personal opinion because we are discussing the matter more deeply.
Reading is fundamental. I said he is an alleged pedophile, then I compared pedophilia to touching as this is what they are accused of.
As far as the alleged victims and their believability that is for an investigation to sort out, though, in its face, if your right, that is certainly a stain on her credibility.
Whoa . . . whoa . . . whoa, dude.
Of course he doesn’t admit to anything. Would he in a speech that is designed to enlist support?
And he says he’s quitting because he can’t represent the people of Minnesota properly? And why can’t he do that?
Easy answer: Because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, and he knows it.
He also knows that an ethics investigation (one which, BTW, he’s AVOIDING . . . for obvious reasons) would find him culpable.
My compliments however to his speech writer. Very crafty citing support of the womens movement. Classic verbal Jiu-jitsu
Glad you bring this up. Let me explain with an example.
If you asked me if I believe in aliens, I would say, yes I believe that aliens probably exist. If you asked if I had any evidence that they existed, I’d say nope. I believe it’s possible only because the universe has more stars than all the grains of sand on every beach in the world (that’s like 1 with 70 zeros after it), which increases the probability and, more importantly, I’ve seen nothing that would falsify it.
Now if you asked me if Unicorns exist (on this planet), I’d say no (at least outside our imaginations). As evidence I’d offer that we’ve explored most of the world and an animal like that would have a pretty hard time not being discovered at this point, so no, I don’t believe Unicorns exist (we could do this all day).
Having said that, I don’t claim to know that aliens exist, thus I am agnostic with respect to that belief.
The real question is, how do my beliefs affect my behavior?
In the case of aliens, there are no consequences that I’m aware of in holding that belief, so that’s an easy one. If that changes then I will re-evaluate that belief in light of the consequences.
As far as Moore and Franken, I’ve already said that my belief as to what they did is secondary to my beliefs that accusers should be taken seriously. What is required at that point is, and this is the most important part, the accused deserve due process because I know that is most important.
See I said I believed it was “probable” and I said Moore was “alleged” to have committed crimes. I never claimed to know.
In Franken’s case, I believe it’s probable that he was inappropriate. The question for me with respect to Franken is, did it rise to the level of criminal? Can it be proven within a reasonable doubt? That’ I’m not sure of, though based on the allegations, I’d claim to know that the accusations against Franken are much less serious than those accusations against Trump and Moore, I’m willing to hear the evidence and change my mind in the event I learn something.
See, it’s possible to entertain a thought without internalizing it. What I mean by that is, if it turns out that new credible evidence comes to light and we find out Franken really is a sexual predator, then I will say, “wow, I didn’t know that”, but because I didn’t internalize it like Papadave, I can freely change my mind and all I have to do is say, “based on new evidence, I know believe (whatever)”.
Same can be said of Moore. If it’s uncovered that some left-wing group paid all those women to say that stuff, then I’ll say, “wow, I didn’t know that when I said that stuff about Moore, guess I was wrong”. Then I’d support prosecution of ANYONE who was involved in it, the DNC, the Clintons, Chuck Schumer or Obama himself if that’s where the evidence led.
But as far as Moore, if I’m wrong, no big deal…Because I never claimed to know, I just said that I believed it “probable”.
Can you see the distinction?
The members of this forum make claims all the time about things they can’t possibly know. The problem is that people internalize _beliefs _ as part of their identity and when they are proven wrong, they defend them (as Papadave has done with Trump) because the real issue isn’t admitting he was wrong about Trump being self-admitted sexual predator, rather it’s admitting to himself he was wrong because he conflated his beliefs with his identity. If Trump is guilty Papa has to come to terms with the fact that he claimed to KNOW something he was wrong about. See there is the distinction? I freely admit I don’t know, I haven’t drawn a conclusion, I’m simply sharing my beliefs, beliefs I reserve the right to change in the face of new evidence. My beliefs are separate from my conclusions, even if you think that I have drawn conclusions based on my statements, I assure you I have not.
Now as a footnote, I should add that the word belief is in itself a terrible word as it can be rather ambigious in its use and relies on the reader to understand the context in hhich it’s being used. This is because we can have both justified and unjustified beliefs.
For example, if I look at the radar and see clouds coming, if I say I believe it’s going to rain, that is a belief justified on the evidence (radar). If I say I believe Jesus will return to earth on New Year’s day, that belief is unjustified as there is no evidence that Jesus will return this New Years day.
When I’m using the term “belief” I am using it in the unjustified sense as I’ve said I don’t know if these things are true.
I was just countering a claim that he had admitted to sexual assault.
I’m not suggesting that we should all just accept his word.
His justification for leaving, as I understand it is that regardless of his claimed innocence, investigations are tough on the family and on the institution and the people of Minnesota who may feel strongly one way or another and that pits people against each other.
While I believe your explanation is possible and reasonable, you say that as if you know it. Do you claim that you know that?
Politics at it’s “best”.