Roy Moore


#41

“I just find it fascinating how much we keep talking about things that have nothing to do with their job as a senator” - Cwolf I concede you’re right senator moore is a fine man heck if there is hair on the field play ball right. Who cares if she grouped a teenager that has nothing to do with his legislative career or his cheapness of wearing fake Religion on his sleeve.


#42

Did Mccain hate Obama he said simply “he’s a man I strongly disagree with” I can strongly disagree with people and be friends.


#43

You have a hard time understanding what’s wrong with Trump going into a pageant dressing room with women. Thanks to J.Anderson for posting that in another thread. I don’t recall seeing that one during the election. Much more egregious than his comments on the bus – outside of bragging about infidelity.

Why does it matter? If my daughter were in that room, well… Guess the Secret Service can come chat with me now. I suppose you could care less about an old man staring at your naked daughter and then bragging about it on Howard Stern. You dismissed it as the whining of guys who can’t get some. (Guys who get laid can be just as outraged by this pathetic behavior as anyone else.) It is not the privilege of the rich, political, elite or successful to do what they will sexually against anyone who does not consent. It is nothing to be admired. It should be shunned. We certainly should not put many of these folks in legislative positions, where they hypocritically go on crusades to “protect women” from lowlifes who do just exactly what they do. These lowlifes legislate on this very topic. It’s got something to do with their job.

Franken:

Sexual harassment and violence are unacceptable. We all must do our part to listen, stand with, and support survivors.

Guys should not grab women’s tits or ******* without their consent. I believe it’s actually criminal – even if they get away with the crime.

Once upon a time, Republicans used to say “Character counts.” What happened to Republicans?

Again, I don’t know enough about Roy Moore to form an opinion.

And J.Anderson is criticizing everyone not just Roy Moore. It would be good to follow J.'s example and condemn bad and criminal behavior regardless of who’s doing it. Way too much tribalism these days – just like when the Democrats didn’t care about the sexually criminal exploits of President Used Car Salesman in the 1990s.


#44

Lets be done with the Ray Moore thing he likes em young. Franken Groups people while they sleep. Biden Kisses women that don’t want it. Trump grabs women by the (obscene word deleted by Fantasy Chaser) they’re all equal okay. 14th amendment says they’re all equal. So what he’s a pedophile, I mean it at this point it hurts the republican party more if he wins. So I’m done with this thread.


#45

What’s interesting to me about Cwolf’s response is he has taken essentially the opposite position from basically every political philosopher in history going back to Plato. To follow on Cwolf’s reasoning, as Socrates would have put it:

Who do you go to for roofing? “A roofer.”

And what makes a good roofer? “Knowledge and skill of roofing.”

What makes for a good “ruler”?

Socrates (and virtually every other philosopher in history): “Virtue.”

It’s remarkable that I’m having to sit here and explain to a “conservative” why personal virtue is important for public officials.


#46

Dude they took the gold in mental gymnastics along time ago… non-sequitors galore.


#47

Well said.


#48

George W. Bush. Jimmy Carter.
Two incompetent men with solid personal virtue. Completely unfit to govern. They completely failed to accomplish anything of note and have no legacy beyond a sense of disappointment.

Compare them to Andrew Jackson, and Lyndon Johnson. Two men largely considered to be unethical in ways that do not impact their job performance. Both were highly successful at achieving their goals. Both left a massive legacy that impacted Americans born a generation after they held office.


#49

@cwolf Hitler was able to preside over the largest Expansion of the German Empire… unethical yes, unfit leader no. Scratch that hitler thing Ethics don’t matter only policy and ability. So you could have a serial killer who agreed with your policy and had the ability to deal with it meanwhile he just chopped peoples heads off as he pleased?


#50

Congratulations on comparing walking into a dressing room with killing 5 million Jews. I think it’s fair to say you just owned me.

I certainly couldn’t demonstrate that you’re actually making my point for me. And that when someone is ruling, lives are on the line. And walking into a dressing room is pretty small fries compared to tens of thousands or even millions of people dying. And that a body count or lives saved is a much better tool to examine someone as a leader than whether or not they made someone uncomfortable.

And that this covers not only direct lives, but also livlihood. And a prosperous economy means a far better reality form a utilitarian perspective than almost anything someone can do in their personal day-to-day life.

It also seems to ignore that if your primary goal is getting Trump to personally stop hitting on women, the best possible way to do that is to make sure he’s too busy and not surrounded by any beautiful women. Like say, the exact situation of him being president.


#51

@CWolf I’m really trying to understand this groping women including minors is less worse than being transgendered??? If given between the choice between Roy Moore and if you don’t believe the accusations lets say Mark Foley and Catlin Jenner both conservatives… Moore or Foley gets the pass? Is Doug Jones so awful, that you’d vote for … ya know. I’ve personally called on Franken to Resign. The best way to get Trump to stop grabbing women is to put him in Jail hell we can put in the same cell as Clinton we’ll call it bipartisan.


#52

I don’t care about trans. I’d happily vote for a trans person. I don’t care what someone does in their personal life. That’s for the people who deal with them on a personal level. Or in the event they are doing something criminal - it’s for the legal system. Unless I’m on a jury, it doesn’t matter.

I also don’t concern myself with legal matters that have nothing to do with me. Like Trayvon Martin, Terry Schivo, or Casey Anthony. Not my business. I’m not them, the people who died or their family, and I’m not on the jury. It has nothing to do with me.


#53

@cwolf so your a die hard minarchist and libertine… what is your motivating issue here. Values? Cash? You like cash alot?


#54

CWolf is not a standard conservative.

Well, when you consider it in the context of your comment, repeated below, it’s irrelevant whether it’s a dressing room or killing 5 million human beings. That’s just scale of suck. If effectiveness is the only measure, to the point we dispense with decency, character, integrity and responsibility then Hitler certainly is a valid comparison. I don’t think Trump is as effective a leader as Hitler was though, far, far less successful.

Effectiveness must be a factor in a fit leader, but it cannot be a single factor, otherwise you end up with this kind of comparison. If it’s uncomfortable to you, then perhaps other factors are necessary. I propose J.Anderson’s “virtue.”

That’s a terrible definition of being “fit to govern.” And no, virtue does not guarantee fitness to lead; but I believe that it’s a key factor in fitness to lead.

Only a difference, a vast difference, in the scale of the crime. That doesn’t excuse the smaller thing, and being “smaller” does not mean it is a “small” thing. I find it rather despicable.

Please, don’t use that term with CWolf. No actual minarchist would ever defend this.


#55

Ridiculous. There was no “anger” in my response. I KNOW what I did back then and have no need to “prove” it to you or anyone else. If you choose not to believe me, who cares? Certainly not I. It’s NOT all that unusual for SOME women to claim rape when there wasn’t any such thing. Case in point was the charges by that hooker that claimed she was gang-raped at a frat party which turned out to be bogus, or the phony rape charges lodged against the Duke University (?) LaCrosse team via “Rolling Stone” magazine?


#56

I won’t vote for a tranny for the simple reason that I don’t want to support someone who’s obviously mentally ill…and ALL tranny’s are.


#57

Yeah, and if he’s a weasel who likes to swindle you while technically within the bounds of the law, no problem, right?..

Because character doesn’t matter in positions of power; I mean, if Hitler can get the job done, let’s all worship at the alter of pragmatism… [/Sarcasm]


#58

A great big Magna Magna-Yeah-That.


#59

Somewhere along the line, terms like “minarchist” and “libertarian” came to mean, in the minds of certain leftists, someone who is utterly amoral and wants the poor to eat dog food and live in cardboard boxes. Unfortunately, this also caught on with certain people on the right who actually are amoral and actually do want the poor to eat dogfood and live in cardboard boxes, and those people started calling themselves “minarchists” and “libertarians,” without having the slightest idea what these philosophies really stand for.

In my experience, actual minarchists, anarchists, and general libertarian types tend to be some of the most decent and moral people I’ve ever met. Just to throw one name out there, take the free-market anarchist Roderick Long, who is as much of a social justice warrior as you’ll ever find, spends his entire life on the front lines advocating for the poor and working class, has been fighting hard against this new wave of white nationalism, etc. One of the best human beings I’ve ever been around. Genuinely gives a shit. He just believes, based on tons of evidence and argument that he has made over the years, that true free markets are the best solution to problems of poverty and social justice.

But, I get it, people see creeps (edited by RWNJ) on these message boards and think anyone who talks about markets is an amoral Trump-voting white nationalist.


#60

I know what “white supremacists” are and I know what “white seperatists” are. I don’t believe that there are any on this forum. They are a footnote in contemporary American politics under the magnifying glass of the media. You’d be lucky to fill Wrigley field with the whole stinking lot of them.

What then are “white nationalists”? Nationalists who happen to be white would be the logical conclusion. The politicized media however has turned this into a pejorative and equate them with the racist groups and with the added bonus of implying that anyone espousing nationalism is a white racist and a Trump supporter.

And, lucky us, we have J.Anderson, who is all to eager to embrace this slimy innuendo with another added bonus of pointing out our moral shortcomings.