Semi Auto generally means one shot per pull of the trigger. The weapon fires as a result of an auto mechanism that cycle and ejects then inserts another round. Usually be gas pressure. Hence the term Semi AUTO…
But how about ANY weapon that holds more than one round, how does that stack up?
“Semi-Auto” doesn’t GENERALLY mean one shot per trigger squeeze. That’s PRECISELY what the term means…period. The gun-grabbing morons want to ban weapons according to what they LOOK like…not according to their functional mechanisms. I have a Ruger 22-10 rifle that holds 10 .22 caliber rounds in a magazine and looks like a standard rifle. If I were to install a pistol grip, it would be called an “assault weapon” and be banned by these idiots.
I think you are missing my point. The point they want to make is the assault weapon kills so many due to its ability to fire so fast therefore killing a lot of people.
But as the video showed a man with an 1873 pistol x 4 can fire off and hit the target with 20 rds in fewer than 20 sec and Chuck Connors can fire off 12 rounds almost as fast as a gas operated AR 15 can and do it with a manual rifle going back to the late 1800’s…
Chuck Connors could have KIA/WIA just as many people at Orlando and done it with a couple of late 1800’s weapons!!!
Yes I agree the whole argument is based upon looks but this is due to STUPIDITY of the LibTards. So in there thinking I guess a M1 is not an assault weapon but an AR 15 is!
I think the weakest part of the argument against banning AR15s is that which some are presenting. It’s true, of course, there have been a few individuals over the years so practiced, so skilled with conventional firearms that they can approach the firepower of the AR15 weapons using more conventional guns.
But that argument misses the point - the point being: Without practice or proficiency a drooling idiot can procure an AR15 that instantly places his firepower and potential lethality on a par - at the very least - with the best gun gurus on the planet, past or present.
Another specious pro AR15 argument I hear used by some - that these guns are hunting tools - is pure BS. I have been fortunate enough to hunt all over the US (incl. Alaska) and in Africa. I have yet to see anyone “hunting” with an AR15. No serious hunter would even consider doing so - not unless they simply wanted to send a series of 55gr projectiles downrange at 3000 ft/sec to see how much meat they can destroy. Yes, there is a .308 version of the AR15 design, but I never saw one of those in the field either. AR15s are NOT hunting tools - they are, by purposeful design, fighting or self-protection tools.
I take your position on gun control, but for a very different reason: The gun horse left the barn nearly 175 years ago in America - that’s when guns began various forms of mass production and wide availability beyond the military. There is no way in hell the government can confiscate the millions and millions of guns currently in public hands - even if it made an all out effort to do so. AR15 type weapons and 30 round clips currently in public hands - the same thing.
The government can pass laws all day long, but the folks who want guns - that includes you, me and, yes, even murderous bastards - are going to be able to get them. It strikes me that the best form of “gun control” aimed at public protection is this - in the commission of a crime “use a gun, go to jail - and stay there”.
Mike, I have hunted with both the AR 15 and the AR 10, granted I was only hunting hogs here in Texas the Feral Hog Capital of the world. Hog can be quite dangerous and having some back in the way of a 10 Rd mag (I think they were 10’s but short mags) can be a good thing.
I do question the use of 5.56 on most game as IMO I don’t think it has the knock down power needed. Same goes for using it in combat. IMO one of the best combat rds would be the .243 Win.
If you do that much hunting do you know John ‘Buddy’ Cross? When I lived in Dallas I was a member of the Dallas Safari Club, great folks!
The entire gun argument IMO spins around the self defense against all enemies both foreign and domestic that is the bottom line. The framers of our Constitution came from England/Europe where is this a LONG history of the uber powerful crushing the people.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”
Here is a dose of reality: Since 1900 GOVERNMENT has been the number 1 murderer of people across the world, try about 269 MILLION people killed thru Democide.
There will come a day when we will need our guns to protect ourselves against our own Government! Every govt across the world has at one time killed it own people.
I realize you aren’t trying to take up the anti argument, but I would hope that you study up a little bit so you can see the error of those arguments as well. They are deeply flawed. Many 2nd Amendment supporters seem to fall into traps laid out by the progressives.
Just a few things from my perspective, both as an active outdoorsman, and part time professional:
The 2nd amendment isn’t about hunting.
It’s not about being able to defend yourself against burglars.
It’s about protecting yourself from tyranny, and foreign invasion. The rest are just added bonuses.
Concerning hunting, AR’s are great for hogs, and coyote (predator control). Prairie dogs, and other varmints not commonly eaten. Medium size animals, or small ones you aren’t going to eat basically.
I personally don’t hunt predators as I eat what I shoot. I do eat hogs, and I’ve killed hundreds of them with my AR, SKS, M1 Carbine, and pistols.
What’s great about the AR (in .223/5.56 NATO) is the ability to shoot up to 800m with open sights. I do have tacticool gear for it, but I shoot mine with only the A2 style rear sight/carry handle. I pretty much leave off all of those scary looking attachments unless I want to show it off to non shooters. Iron sights never fail, pretty much.
AR platform in standard format comes in many flavors, from 9mm, .300 Blackout, .300 Whisper, .458 SOCOM, 7.62x39R (same as the AK), .50 Beowulf, and many others besides the 5.56/.223. It’s really a long list, and generally includes any non-rimmed pistol offering and rifles up to what you stated, .308 (in the AR-10 platform).
The media/Left puts it out there like the AR is such a weapon of mass destruction, but have you seen what an M1 Garand can do? It has an 8 round Enbloc clip. That .30-06 is now loaded up to low end .300WinMag. Bullet proof vest? Ha! The Garand laughs at you. For that matter, it has almost twice the effective range as the standard AR. In close quarters it makes an excellent club, or spear with attached bayonet. A pugilist’s dream to be sure. Imagine that, a WWII design.
Also, another point of disagreement with your statement:
I have seen soldiers, airmen, sailors and yes, even brother Marines that couldn’t hit a disabled Humvee at 50m. I have issue with the generalization that anyone could pick up an AR (or any other semiauto rifle for that matter) and be just as proficient as anyone else. That’s stretching for something. It’s a commonly stated “truth” that the Left propagates, but doesn’t hold true in reality.
Don, I am 72 and traded hunting for golf and fishing many years ago. I am not familiar with Mr. Cross.
DN, you and Don make good points regarding hog hunting - I can see where the AR15 would be useful, not to mention, fun. But, where the argument breaks down a bit concerns the fact there are rifles available in the caliber (.223) you prefer that don’t allow for 30 rounds and then popping in another 30 round mag.
I would suggest to you that, while your argument is not incorrect, it’s just an argument that will probably not resonate with a majority of folks - it isn’t the best argument to put forward in the debate.
My suggestion, and it is simply explained, is that the argument should focus on the fact the 2nd Amendment affords citizens the right to bare arms and to do so as a means of self protection from threats/danger. To do this, citizens must be afforded the ability to acquire means of self defense/protection consistent with weapons in possession of others within society. The government can never successfully confiscate every type of gun in the US - even AR15s. That being the case, if I want such a weapon, I should be allowed to purchase/possess it.
Pointing out the futility of taking a knife to a gun fight might be a good idea, too.
Mike, dealing with the uneducated far left who depend solely upon the media for knowledge I can assure you showing them Chuck Connors and the other fellow burping out that many rounds in a matter of seconds with guns made in the 1800’s makes a rather strong point and I dare say that to many who see and believe that when Mr Bad Dude breaks into their home that a 011 dial will have Mr Police on site in seconds. The further you are to the left the more tenuous your grip on reality.
What often is brought up is that they then suggest that ‘those guns’ need to be banned.
I can assure you this argument does not work on the far left: “self defense against all enemies both foreign and domestic” My personal belief is that is what our founding fathers intended. To the far left they do not see this at all as in their mind its the job of the Govt, local and federal to protect them.
When we moved to our ranch out in E Tx I was about 14 or so. We raised horses and one of my jobs was working the fences. Often I would saddle up and ride or sometimes walk, but strapped to my hip was a single action ‘Colt 45’ only it was a different make in .22 long. It had a 9 shot cyl. WHY? SNAKE!!! Rattler and Water Moc (we had a lake on property). We also raised chickens, we had snakes everywhere and one of my prime jobs was to kill them off so as they did not bite our horses and us I guess. Anyhow I did not go out without my gun. Try telling that to a LibTard, I can assure you at that point in the conservation their head is SPINNING on their shoulders and they are backing away from me while asking what KIND OF PARENTS ALLOW THAT! “Couldn’t you hire someone to come get the snakes?” Self defense is not part of their thought process and to them your argument is mute. They don’t know of anyone who has had their home invaded while they were there, the only snake they have seen is on TV or a Zoo. They have never grabbed a bale of hay off the field only to find a rattle snake hanging out of it and not very happy; or a calf or foal get bit in the face by a water moc and die.
The fact is there is NO argument you can use that makes sense to the far left that we should have a 2nd Amend. Self defense is just not our job, the govt will take care of us!
Excellent post, Don. You are correct, rational arguments do not work with the willingly irrational. This is one reason I have been so outspokenly disappointed - read, angry - with Trump and his failures to capitalize on obvious political openings. Preserving that which most of us believe in will eventually come down to SCOTUS rulings. Should Hillary gain the White House there will be significant damage - much of it not reversible.
Mike, right on there for sure! Unless Trump gets his act together NOW I am afraid it will be a landslide by Hillery…In fact he might have already blown it, he has dug a really deep hole and lost focus and what is important to we the people, not him!
Then there is the question of money! Hilda sets on $1 BILLION and I think he has $14 Million he has raised. Lets say he can pull it off with 80% of her bankroll, ok, $800 Million and he has about 15 weeks to raise it and the media is no longer carrying his water for him.
I’ve long thought that a good assault rifle round could be made from the .30 Remington case (sort of a rimless .30-30; it’s larger in diameter than the .223 Remington/5.56mm NATO, but smaller than the .308, .243, etc., and thus you can squeeze a few more in a mag than the fatter cartridges), perhaps shortened a little, and necked down to .243, .257, or .264 caliber. I’m guessing it would be still tame enough for full auto, and it would have much better penetration on vehicles and such than the .223/5.56mm.
Goodness, I got into a bullet caliber argument with one of my liberal friends the other day when they suggested that the AR-15 has no place in a home. Thoroughly shut them down. Liberals seem to struggle when they have no idea what they are talking about.
I read a while back that there was strong consideration given to the 243 to be used as a NATO round, like the 308. Fast, flat, and plenty of stopping power. The casing is the same size as the 308. I bought my wife a Savage 243 a few years back to hunt deer and I’ve used it more than she has.
You might remember the rage of the 6.7 mm in AR’s and almost every AR builder had one, so where is it now? Sadly it was more of a scam than anything else. It was basically a dumbed down .270 Win and was it DUMB! But like so many things some guys got together that were X SOCOM operators and along with a gun guy they came up with the magic round to end all combat rounds and got a patent on it (as I understand) Then with the SOCOM contacts they head back to the Army and present the end all be all.
Just so happens that a guy who worked for me, in fact my number 2 man when I was a PM in the Army sat on the Army board (he is a Vietnam vet, combat medic soldier and knows his stuff, also a serious gun guy). I too got sucked in with all the ballyhoo and also thought hey, X-SOCOM guys are involved must be good. So I contacted the guy who worked for me and asked they he get involved if he was not. He calls back and we have a long conservation (he asked me not to reveal what he told me), that when I found out the whole motive was to make a few guys UBER $$$$$$ Rich by selling the rights to the round to DoD. So the Army just blew it off and let it die. It was not a good round, the REAL performance was clearly subpar, the advertised was so far over the top that it would have been the only round you and the world would ever need, throw the rest away.
So my buddy tells me they get some guy and his magic round submitted almost weekly. As he said, every mothers son who has a reloading kit dreams up a better round. What they generally reply with is just tell the guy to ship 25,000 rds for initial testing and then an additional 100,000 rds for selected unit testing, he said you rarely hear back.
Getting into an argument with a LibTard over the Bill of Rights, ESPECIALLY the 1st and 2nd Amend is at best a waste of time, there is no argument you can present they understand and comprehend. Freedom of speech, religion and right to bear arms are 3 areas that as far as they are concerned should be wiped off the face of the earth. You can mention history shows us different and they don’t care. Then most will bring up Hitler to which they reply, YES and he was a RIGHT WING nut job. Then you argue that he was not a right winger but a far left…deaf ears!
Where are we in 2016?
Freedom of speech: No longer, gone, use the N word and find yourself charged with a Hate Crime!
Freedom of Association: No longer, diversity rules, say you don’t care to associate with GLBT and find yourself fired from your job!
Freedom of Religion: Gone, even soldiers in uniform will throw you out of a military funeral for using the word God, but Allah is ok…yes Christians and Jews are the only ones that have lost their rights!
Right to keep and bear arms: We are only votes away from losing this completely either by SCOTUS or Executive Order by this or the next POTUS or by a Dimocratic Congress…we are hanging on to hanging on by a thread…
Very interesting discussion that you folks have going here. There is one item that one or two post came close to mentioning but did not. So here for your consideration is how annoying I find the comments of the anti-constitution crowd that the .223/5.56 caliber is such a high power weapon.
Just for the record. The .22 centerfire cartridge is not permitted for entry into an NRA hi power metallic silhouette competition. Minimum caliber for that event is .243. I dislike thinking of the number of time I have had and seen or heard up to 7mm-08 ring the 500 meter ram but not knock it over. Fact of the matter is that I participate in a local event of metallic varmint shooting for .22 centerfire and more often than not the 250 yard coyote rings when hit but fails to fall over. Rules are set up so that obvious damage to the paint counts as a hit. For a number of us it is an enjoyable event with friends and family and keeps the rust out of the trigger finger joints.
But it does annoy me to hear the libs refer to anything firing the .223/5.56 cartridge as a hi power firearm. :Thud:
I have a Winchester 700 bdl in .225 caliber. It fires the same 55 grain round as the .223, but with a lot more powder behind it. Muzzle velocity is around 3,760 fps; so fast that most indoor ranges prohibit it. Firing it into a dirt backstop at 100 yards, you ALMOST see the dust cloud before you hear the bang in your ear–and it IS quite loud! I shot a deer with it once and hit the deer fairly high in the shoulder at about 200 yards. It knocked him off his feet and, by the time I walked to where he went down, he was dead, probably from shock as much as damage. Ammo is sort of hard to find–and not cheap–but if Winchester went back to making them again, the price and availability would likely improve.
I remember hearing a network reporter calling it a “high power” cartridge when the DC sniper pair were at large. :rolleyes:
Yeah, it’s so high-powered that many or most states don’t allow it for deer hunting, while no one (knowledgable) ever accused the .30-30 Winchester of being high-powered. For that matter, most states will even allow .357 Magnum for deer hunting (an iffy proposition in a handgun; better in a rifle-length barrel).
The 30-30 is a good, versatile weapon, even if the round’s ballistic makes it look like a rainbow. I have two “1971 Lone Star Commemorative” Model 94’s with consecutive serial numbers–one in rifle length and the other in carbine length. They are in their original box and have never been fired, though. My preferred hunting rifle today is a scoped 700 bdl in .243. Good for anything from deer up to bears. I also have a scoped Ruger carbine in .44 Magnum. I bought it years ago because it’ll kill a CAR! The 30-30’s are lever action, the .243 is bolt action and the Ruger is semi-auto. I took the .243 and the .44 Magnum to an indoor range early this Spring and zeroed them at 30 yards so the rounds all hit the top of the bulls-eye, about 2.5" from center at that distance.