Shades of Suetonius


It’s like the “Nero” chapter of the Twelve Caesars.


Early Monday morning, F.B.I. agents raided the New York office, home and hotel room of the personal lawyer for the president of the United States. They seized evidence of possible federal crimes — including bank fraud, wire fraud and campaign finance violations — related to payoffs made to women, including a porn actress, who say they had affairs with the president before he took office and were paid off and intimidated into silence.



When I heard about it, I immediately thought of it as a tactic just like the Russian NKVD and KGB used. Though of course, the tactic’s use against the head of state is remarkable statement about the differences between whatever Russia and USSR is and were versus what the US is.

There’s also the shocking irony that the very investigation that searches night and day to find something, anything, to connect our President with Russia, uses a tactic very much like Russia to intimidate.


Eh, the raid was conducted by a guy who donated to the Trump campaign; a Giuliani ally who was appointed by the Trump administration. Not very fertile grounds for accusations of a far-left deep state coup.

It stands to reason that such a guy wouldn’t touch this unless the evidence of criminality were too explosive to ignore. But I suppose we’ll find out.


So? Trump himself donated to every Democrat that came along. Who actually attacked is less the issue than who sent them and the nature of the tactic itself.

The basis of Mueller’s investigation is the fraudulent Democrat dossier, so I doubt if Mueller is likely to flinch at using more corrupt evidence along the way.


That’s not a rational conclusion. Occam’s Razor: the most likely solution here is that there’s just a lot of dirt on Trump being discovered, and prosecutors have a moral and legal duty to followup on that dirt.


I remember when the Left exploded in joy over Manafort being in this position, it was pretty great watching them choke back tears when that turned out to be a bunch of nothing :slight_smile:

Watching the Left get their hearts broken over and over again as their lies fall flat and their deep state hacks keep coming up dry is making this a pretty great time in American politics!


Yeah, those deep state hacks must be so frustrated.

Like the far-left bone-red Leninist Jeff Sessions, Trump appointee and life-long Republican Rod Rosenstein, Republican war hero Robert Mueller, and yet another Trump appointee (who donated to Trump’s campaign) Geoffrey Berman.


Lots of dirt? Is there any dirt being discovered? Do you believe Mueller’s team has the rock solid discipline it would take to not leak it? If Trump had done anything illegal, or even smiled and waved at a Russian diplomat, I’m sure we would have seen wall to wall coverage on it by now.


So you think it’s more likely that Mueller is so deeply corrupt and biased that he would forge evidence against the President of the United States in order to fool Trump supporters into raiding the personal attorney of said POTUS? Let’s be serious.


That list is a pretty good example of the deep state, I find it amusing that you think pointing to Republican Party membership is a “gotcha!”; who exactly are the people who think the GOP is not saturated with deep state, establishment hacks?


And this list of “Evidence” that condemns Trump is located where?


Exactly, and the claim that these are “Trump Supporters” who keep playing these game is laughable; the GOP has been Trumps biggest obstacle since he was elected and they are as invested in preserving the status quo as the Democrats are if not more so.


I do hope you have taken the precaution of wearing bubble wrap as clothing every day J, I would not want you to get hurt when you faint after hearing this is just “much ado over nothing” chapter 312 :joy:


It requires divorce from even the most basic elements of cogent thinking to imagine that the most reasonable explanation of events is that a bunch of Trump supporters and conservatives are all part of an elaborate conspiracy to forge evidence of criminality in order to justify a baseless and risky raid of the personal lawyer of the President of the United States.

  1. There are many Republicans who are not Trump supporters.
  2. There are many Conservatives who are not Trump supporters.
  3. There are even Trump appointees who are not Trump supporters. Although I question the political wisdom of this, the President has a tendency to appoint the best person for the job even if they are not political supporters.
  4. I was listening to Glenn Beck this morning (I live in a radio wasteland). He was one of the most vehement Trump detractors in the primaries. He did not vote for Trump. He is not a Trump supporter and remains highly critical of many of the Presidents actions. He does however have the personal integrity to recognize the good things (in his opinion) that the President does. He also has respect for the rule of law and the Constitution which allow him to acknowledge the baseless, dishonest and possibly criminal tactics of Mueller and elements of the Deep State to remove a duly elected president.
  5. Long time liberals who respect the rule of law and the constitution recognize the lawless attempted coup. I am thinking of Jonathan Turley and Alan Dershowitz both of whom voted for Hillary.
  6. Last, but not least, if there was any there there, IT ALREADY WOULD HAVE BEEN LEAKED. The information from the Gestapo like raid on Michael Cohen has already made it to the Washington Post.
    As the old ad said: “Where’s the beef?”.


The risk of exposure in forging evidence as part of a vast conspiracy against the president of the united states (their lives and careers would be utterly ruined, their reputations tarnished for all time, and their families would have to live in shame and disgrace) doesn’t come close to being worth whatever reward you could conjure up for them to be chasing (a long-shot snowball’s chance in hell of impeaching Trump based on forged evidence…are you insane?)

Your position is irrational. The more likely and far more plausible argument is that the investigation uncovered incontrovertible evidence that Cohen is a criminal scumbag, and the conservatives and Trump supporters involved felt morally and legally obligated to followup on that strong evidence in a responsible and professional manner.

As for all the attorney-client privilege arguments. Spare me. I’m as hardcore about civil liberties as they come, but attorney-client doesn’t give someone immunity from criminal prosecution or investigation. As long as the collected information is handled legally and professionally, it’s fair game.


Remember Dan Rather? He trashed his career at it’s peak over forged evidence. And I will never believe he didn’t know what he was doing.


Attorney-client privilege is sacrosanct…or it used to be, anyway. Communications between a client and his attorney CANNOT be revealed to a third party. Not even an admission of guilt BY that client. Yet, here we have the FBI scooping up EVERY record in Cohen’s possession…INCLUDING privileged information between Trump and his attorney. The FBI CLAIMS that it intends to separate “privileged” communications from the rest of those records, but the ONLY way they can do that is to READ those communications and THEY’LL decide what’s privileged and what isn’t. That’s pure unadulterated BS and anyone with a functioning brain cell KNOWS it is. NO ONE, but the attorney and his client should have access to those communications…even casually.


Uhm, money, power; yeah, there are people who will take and have taken the risk of some rather glaring illegalities for these. And some, like the Clintons, have gotten away with it to date.


Interesting and telling moment in all of this: the government’s response to the claim by Cohen’s lawyers that the documents are covered by attorney client privilege is that Cohen wasn’t actually performing legal services for Trump, but that his actual duties for Trump are covering up the President’s illegal and immoral activities. That is, he isn’t really Trump’s “lawyer” so much as he’s a lawyer who actually functions as a “fixer,” similar to what is employed by mob bosses.