Should people who refuse civil vaccines pay more for insurance?

answer the fookin queschun.

I don’t think it’s as straightforward as you’re suggesting. What may or may not work in one culture doesn’t necessarily cut the mustard in another. Furthermore, no matter how much people don’t want to get into a wreck, errors in judgement are going to occur. I prefer speed limits, and wish people actually gave a crap about them anymore.

I do prefer it to giving government more power and making the citizenry more dependent upon them.

Paraphrasing Adlai Stevenson at the UN in 1962 response to the Soviets:

“I am prepared to wait until hell freezes over for your answer.”

Some people spread AIDS and other viruses through sex. Are you going to outlaw sex? Or make people with AIDS wear a star on their clothing so you can easily identify them before they kill you?


A good number of people who have AIDS are gay. That presents a big problem for Democrats given their pecking order for U.S, citizens or, more accurately, residents. Gays and transsexuals are just below illegal aliens when it comes to rights and privileges.

A Virginia school board has just ruled self-described transsexuals, who still have their male parts, can use the women’s locker rooms and bathrooms. Women have been moved to the back of the bus in the Democrat Party.

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Tell you what, you take out the fallacies and I’ll answer the question.

Can you give me an examples of the kinds of dependence that you think is so harmful?

Sure, but I can chose not to have sex with a person with AIDS. Unless they don’t tell me. In that case I think we can agree that the person acted unethically and there is the potential for holding that person accountable.

But if you know you are infected with the CV and you get on a plane and infect others, there’s no accountability, even if the people you infect die, because who could prove it was your infection that infected others. So people who are unvaccinated not wearing masks (as masks are worn mostly to help prevent infected from infecting others) get to spread the virus and cause suffering and death without accountability as they hide in the fact that it can’t be proven who infected who.

So yeah, not at all the same. I’d sit next to a person with AIDS on a plane without a second thought, but if I weren’t vaccinated and they had COVID, no F’ing way.

Think about it this way, if there was a genetic test , hypothetically, that could determine who infected another person and it could be shown specifically who they caught the infection from, should there be any sort of accountability if the person in question knew they were infected and unnecessarily put people at risk (like getting on a plane IF they knew they were infected and lied when asked at a security checkpoint. Or even just being out in public without a mask in places that you don’t need to be)?

Because we cannot know that, the ask is simply that people get vaccinated and in some cases wear masks not to perfectly eliminate the possibility of infection (because we can’t do that), but to reduce it.

To reiterate, sex with a person that has AIDS is a choice. And, it is against the law for a person with AIDS to have sex in at least 35 states unless the person with AIDS discloses thier condition and the other person gives their consent (are given the choice). But if you know you have COVID and give it to someone else you can cause them to suffer or die. But your freedom is more important than their lives?

I’ve heard many on the right show outrage that they might have to prove their vaccination status to enter a private business, but isn’t that the same? Shouldn’t people have the choice to expose themselves and how else can a person have a choice unless they know who is and is not vaccinated since it’s impossible to know everyone who has the virus (which is of course why the virus has contributed to the deaths of over 600,000 people).

It wouldn’t make me happy because that is barbaric. We live in the 21st century so let’s use a more modern approach. Anyone too stupid to get a vaccine 20+ months in a global pandemic without a legitimate reason (Tucker Carlson saying so doesn’t qualify as a good enough reason) should get a barcode tattooed onto their forehead. So for the rest of their lives because they are so anti-science, the next time they need medical care, they get scanned and instead of getting expert medical treatment they receive whatever the comments section on social media suggests (seeing as they believe that is far more reliable than modern medicine).

I cannot articulate how comfortable I would be watching anti maskers and anti vaxxers kill themselves over their own stupidity, if it wasn’t that their idiocy puts everybody else at risk.

We could also have another bar code tattooed on the foreheads of conservatives, libertarians and Republicans. That way @Patooka would know who the enemy is without reviewing their comments.

I agree with the concept that everyone should be strongly encouraged to get the vaccine. I got the second shot after a five hour wait in my car. HOWEVER, tying people down and forcing them to get it, is not that far from the tattoo idea. It’s a slippery slope. Who knows what other things the government will be able to force you to do?

I am sick of mask wearing and lying government officials who keep changing the goal posts. I wore the mask for months when I was in public, and I was miserable. I have allergies and breathing through the mask for me was hell. I felt dizzy and sick every time I was in the food store with the thing on for extended periods of time.

I am sick of old man Fauci telling me what to do when his message changes every day. If he really was responsible for sending our tax payer dollars to China to fund the “enhanced transmission” of this hellish disease, he should be fired immediately, sued in civil court until he’s a homeless person and prosecuted criminally if that were possible. If he approved that expenditure, he has the blood of the world on his hands.

Anyone who thinks that sending medical research money to China is a good idea is a lunatic. China is not just an enemy of the United States; they are the enemy of the world. The Chinese Communist Party is the 21st century equivalent of the Nazi Party, and Chairman Xi Jinping is the modern day Hitler.

Given their behavior, I am convinced that the Democrats, who control Biden (the far left), want this pandemic to last as long as possible. It has given them control over people that they never imagined that they would have. Pelosi, Schumer, AOC and the Squad LOVE this stuff. They never want it to end.

It’s ironic because people like you were saying how the pandemic was made up when Trump was prez and that as soon as Biden came into office the whole thing would vanish.

Not to mention that in order for that to be true (that the Dems want to drag the pandemic out), the whole world would have to be in on the Dems evil plot to extend the virus just to make Republicans like you sad.

to reiterate what I meant, if you don’t know you’re having sex with someone with AIDS it isn’t a choice man

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Years ago there were people who called for people who were HIV positive to get a tattoo that warned others of that fact. You can see what I mean by the slippery slope.


Anything whereby the government can strongarm people by threatening to take away what they’ve grown (or forced to become) dependent on.

How about the fact that the vaccine was rushed through and possible long-term effects have yet to be determined? They thought they had all their ducks in a row when they green-lighted thalidomide too; and it turned out to be a disaster. I realize the science is a lot more advanced now, but it isn’t flawless.


I genuinely appreciate you answering my question. Thank you.

But my question in return is; if the government wasn’t providing things that you say that people can be dependent on:

  1. Do you believe that need that made that dependence possible would not exist? Or,

  2. Do you think most of not all of those same people would simply be dependent on some other organization/ people?

I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I’m going to take a poke.

I agree the vaccine was rushed and I agree that with things like this there is a risk. For those of us that rushed to take the vaccine, perhaps there was a risk that there could have been harmful side effects. That was a real possibility. We agree there is risk in everything we do. These sorts of decisions are about mitigating risk. Not only was there the risk of getting seriously ill (based on my age and condition I’d put my risk of being hospitalized somewhere between 10-15% and death at 1-2%), but then there is also the risk that I pose to others, which is why, even though I’m vaccinated I recently began wearing my mask when I’m indoors in close proximity to others.

That said, firearms are used to kill 30k-40k people per year (I can’t remember the exact number), and if I bring that up, you’ll tell me they are worth the risk. That they provide more benefits than harm.

Further, in both cases, Covid and firearms’ we also have to ask ourselves how preventable deaths are. In other words, if there is something of low risk that only kills a few thousand people a year but can be easily prevented at little cost, risk and effort, then making a big deal isn’t necessary about the number of people it kills but how easily deaths could be prevented and that failure to do whatever it is that would prevent them is inexcusable.

Fundamentally, we both understand the risks of taking a vaccine that is brand new firearms. However, I suspect that we disagree on the risk each poses and what we should do about it.

Corvid deaths and hospitalizations could be limited to a tiny fraction that we see today, thus the fact that so many are being hospitalized and dying is inexcusable. And the fact that people are allowed to flaunt that risk is one thing, it crosses the line when they put others at risk.

My last question would be. At what point are you going to be convinced that vaccines are worth the risk? I mean, almost half the population has now had a vaccine, globally many times more. It seems we’ve been the guinea pig pigs for people who are hesitant. At what point does your reason cease to be a good reason?

Yeah, that was back in the days of yore when the left believed in the Bill of Rights, well, at least 9 of them.

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Let’s get real here.

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Is there a logical fallacy for using a fake graphic with made-up numbers? The fallacy of being wrong maybe?

Seriously though, can you appreciate how whomever made that graphic is trying to propagandize you? They even made it in the style of a Fox News graphic because the right trusts them more often.

Edit: it’s laughable that it also assumes you’re young and selfish enough to be cool with over 1 in 20 people over 70 being killed.

First, thanks for correcting my most.

Do you have the actual data?

Your quoted question makes no sense at all. Please rephrase it. My only conclusion, so far, is that you have no concept of what a logical fallacy is.

Gene’s reply shows the numbers are fake, but ironically, those numbers are appalling!

So let’s run with those figures.

There are 331 million people in the US.

There have been 36 million infections in the US so far (probably many more that go unreported, but we’ll use this number so we don’t have to haggle over the real numbers).

Assuming that the infections are spread evenly between demographic groups (just to keep things simple).

About 16% of people in the US are over 70 or about 52,960,000.

If 11% of that 53 million has caught Covid, that means about 5 million

Now if 5 million people over 70 have caught Covid and 5.4% die, that means 250,000 people have died.

And that’s just people over 70.

Using your numbers, 250,000 due if covid, SO FAR. That’s not to say that no one would die if we took more precautions, but the number would be lower.

And remember, this isn’t over, it could get a lot worse.

But like I said to Guts, your freedom is worth more than their lives.

And let’s remember all that people are asked to do is get vaccinated, wear masks in public. Not to congregate in large groups, especially indoors, practice good hygiene and maintain social distance.

In other words, what you are being asked to do is small when weighed against the lives of the people who will die if people refuse to make some changes.

Now there are examples of restrictions that go to far, but they are the exception and not the rule and I’ll help you advocate against to sillier policies…

It’s important to remember that Ebola was much more deadly to the individual, but covid is much more deadly overall.

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