Shutting down for-profit schools could hurt more people than it would help


Shutting down for-profit schools could hurt more people than it would help
By Washington Post Editorial Board
September 10, 2016

NEVER MIND that the higher education plans of tens of thousands of students will be disrupted. Or that 8,000 people will lose their jobs. Or that American taxpayers could be on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars in forgiven student loans. What is apparently of most importance to the Obama administration is its ideological opposition to for-profit colleges and universities. That’s a harsh conclusion, but it is otherwise hard to explain why the Education Department has unabashedly used administrative muscle to destroy another company … .

ITT Technical Institutes, … on Tuesday abruptly announced that after 50 years in business it was shutting down more than 100 campuses in 38 states. The announcement … follows last month’s decision by the Education Department barring the school from enrolling new students using federal student aid and upping its surety requirements. The department … noting the school had been threatened with a loss of accreditation and that it was facing a number of ongoing investigations by both state and federal authorities.

What is so troubling about the department’s aggressive move — which experts presciently called a death sentence — is that not a single allegation of wrongdoing has been proven against the school. … its unilateral action without any semblance of due process is simply wrong. …

There is no question that there are shady for-profit colleges and universities that take advantage of students … failing to give them marketable skills. They should not be in business. But then the same can be said for some public and private schools, whose wretched weaknesses the government seems glad to overlook.

Accreditation board run by member colleges (public and/or non-profit colleges are many such members members) and state and Federal government “investigations” (which may find nothing)? Why does this smell like BHO’s Administration a cabal among public and non-profit colleges, blue state AGs, and its own agencies as a pretext for taking out an educational institution of the type the BHO Administration and Ds generally have been demonizing for at least a couple of years?

Call it bias disclosure or call it experience, I’m a grad of De Vry, one of the few “for-profits” older that ITT Tech. I received an excellent education from a “for-profit”, and education that has enabled me to learn and reinvent myself through a nearly 40 year career. In its student recruiting literature, De Vry claimed that major companies came to De Vry campuses to recruit new employees. I found this to be true. My first Silicon Valley job was from a hiring manager who was touring De Vry schools to staff an entire test group for a critical new project (displays for the then in development F-18 Hornet).

“Where did you go to college?” isn’t a super commonly question among co-workers, in my experience, so I’ve only met 2 ITT grads, that I’m aware of. Both were excellent. As the article indicates, there are shady fly-by-night “for-profit” outfits “out there”. ITT Tech was not one of them. ITT may eventually win if they sue the Federal government, but it will likely be a victory by a zombie. The chances of ITT reopening its schools are very slim: something like 40K students’ educations demolished; 8000 jobs destroyed; 100 campuses insta-vacant, with companies servicing them losing a significant part of their business. Aren’t government fiat and cronyism wondrous things?!

The brevity of this WashPost piece makes it feel a little cursory, but when even the WashPost recognizes this act by the Feds as a probable targeted assassination (my choice of metaphor) by BHO’s ***MAL***Administration …


The purpose of shutting down the Charter schools is the govt loses control like they have in the public schools where are now run almost 100% by the Feds…


Charter schools are something entirely different. While they may be administered in part or in toto by private companies, they are still government elementary and/or high schools. The big “losers” with charter schools are the teachers unions (which are largely allied with educrats). Schools like ITT or De Vry are post high school and independent of government, except in participation in student loan programs.


I’m on the fence about this. I can understand not wanting money from grants to go towards such an education, but loans are simply that: the borrowing of money to be repaid.

If the free market rejects the credentials of these schools than the schools will inherently fail. After 50 years, it would seem their reputations have remained strong enough to stay in business. Most companies have become wise to understand it isn’t just the Ivy schools that they are looking for, in some cases it may be that type of person they aren’t looking for (some Ivy grads might feel “entitled” to the six figure salary, I don’t know this to be true at all, I’m just suggesting a potential issue they might face). Large companies especially like to take someone with the propensity to learn and ambition to apply themselves to their fullest, and, teach them how their company does business. Their system, their internal education. I have graduated from sales university at a corporation I worked for. I was able to absorb the information and adapt, I certainly didn’t have a sales background.

Whatever the school, I am a firm believer in stats about graduate employment prospects and past successes. If the stats don’t back up the justification of a cost, consumers need to understand this. If needed, government needs to promote this information to potential students as well, even have them sign a waiver explaining that they understand the risks: “I, John Smith, realize that a diploma in pottery is a diploma with a low rate of employment success over the last 20 years” etc.


The article puts ITT’s founding in the mid-1960s. DeVry University, as it is now called, was founded in 1931. That’s ample time for electronics companies to discern their value: if poor, they would not hire DeVry or ITT grads, and ample time for this fact to become public knowledge; if good, then DeVry and ITT grads would find their degrees accepted during hiring processes. The latter is the case, and in my experience, major electronics companies came toward the end of every trimester to recruit. The company that hired me hired, IIRC, a total of 6 new/recent DeVry grads, 3 from the KC school, 2 from the Phoenix school, and 1 from the Chicago school. Elaborating some on my post above, we were all for a new test group, and the project was not only important to the company’s future, but one that was just transitioning from engineering, with no established procedures or experienced techs in the test group. Other than a couple of engineers who were in a building 1/4 mile away and an engineering tech, we were practically thrown to the wolves. We enjoyed wolf stew.


I will welcome the day when the good schools wear a lack of accreditation as a badge of honor, as a point of emphasis to sell themselves to a public that desires education and has no interest in indoctrination.

This day that I look forward to will not arrive until the government sponsored student loan programs are abolished in their entirety, these programs are the root of the destruction that is now past tense in most colleges and universities.

A degree these days is a virtual guarantee that the holder cannot spell, reason or think critically in any capacity; and that they will be arrogant in this ignorance to such a degree that they are unteachable.

This seems like a bad thing because they were targeted by government but it is really a blessing for education, the better schools should have cut the cord a long time ago and began marketing the fact that they have no connection to government and never will again.

The Market will finish off the indoctrination schools the moment this line is defined clearly and the evidence of how superior the education is that comes from the schools that flip the bird to the government, the “Useful Idiots” that run these government schools will no longer be “Useful” once the people start saying ***“A mind is too important to waste in a government school”. ***


The reason ITT tech is having these problems, is pretty much its own doing. They set up very bad private loans, they lost a lot of money on them, and started working to hide it(illegally). Two of their executives have been brought up on fraud charges over the issue.

I wouldn’t compare ITT to DeVry. ITT’s graduates actually earn less money than people coming out of normal community colleges, while spending well over 2x as much upfront, and about 3-4x as much when the loan rates are factored in.

Whereas Community Colleges tend to offer programs based on local demand, ITT basically makes programs they think they can sell people on, regardless as to whether or not there is actual demand for the degree. There may have been a time when ITT Tech was a great school. I have no idea. There was a time when Enron was a solid energy company. Things change. I don’t see a major loss in ITT going away. They’re sub-par these days, and in rapid decline.

Edit: ITT is worse than I thought. Some stats
ITT charges up to $44,000 for an associate’s degree.

According to the CFPB, “for borrowers with credit scores under 600, for example, the costs of the private student loans included 10 percent origination fees and interest rates as high as 16.25 percent".

It has a 64% default rate on the loans.

I’m good with closing these guys down. They suck.


Bad huh…ya think??? What is the GOVT rate of return (%) on its student loans?

About 50%!!!


**The number of student loans in default is 11%, **not 50%. And about half of those defaults are incurred from students attending private for-profit schools. Despite private schools making up fewer than 10% of loans. 10% is the national average, 64% from ITT Tech. There’s a reason they cut this crap company off.

ITT can still operate, they simply can’t receive federal grants or loans anymore.


You were reading to fast Wolfman, I wrote: “What is the GOVT rate of return (%) on its student loans?” The govt makes a LOT of money off these loans…

The overall student default rate runs about 13.7 % - 14.7% on all student loans.

National student loan default rate dips to 13.7 percent; still ‘too high,’ official says

By Nick Anderson September 24, 2014
The share of student borrowers who default on federal loans soon after payments start coming due has fallen, the government reported Wednesday.

The national student loan default rate, 14.7 percent a year ago, stands at 13.7 percent.


It is funny a few minutes ago I was reading complaints for ITT technical Institute from students and even teachers who said it taught nothing and saddled students with huge student loans and a piece of paper no legitimate college who would accept as credits or businesses accept as qualifications for a job. I imagine student loans are defaulted on regularly.