So, gun control now?

We have just learned that the Colorado shooter was a angry Muslim. He has while skin, but since he’s Muslin, there is nothing to see here.

I don’t care about that at all. This is about stopping mass shootings

Nope, you just want to control other human beings who disagree with you. No compromises, no dialogue. Just agree with you or go away.

So you think this should continue? I tried finding a starting place with you on background checks and appreciated your input.

No, I told you I thought that there should be background checks, and you immediately jump to,”That’s a start” with the expectation that I will cave to you on every issue.

It’s the same with abortion. I support limited choice, and you come back with killing live born children. (Virginia Governor Ralph Northrum) If that’s the choice, I end up driven to the conservatives.

There is no middle any more because the college professors, who poisoned your mind, have drilled into you that compromise is wrong.

We just found out the Colorado shooter on the FBI’s watch list. Once more FBI dropped the ball, but going after Trump supporters was a higher priority. The Federal Justice Department has been politicized, and that should concern you more than any other issue.

I say “that’s a start” in hopes of discussing the merits of policy and how it might impact the crisis going forward. You’re free to disagree with me, but it seems you’re the one unwilling to hear arguments that may budge you from your original position. It’s not a compromise if the first thing you throw out is all you’re willing to discuss.

Assault rifles weren’t used in any shootings recently. They and other long guns like the AR15 comprise about 1-2% of shootings overall.

Far more are committed with handguns, owing to the fact they’re easier to hide and easier to buy.

Do what the Israelis did; arm public spaces (more guards). Require active duty soldiers to walk around with their service weapons.

Equally, do what the Swiss do and promote gun training.

Laws that seek to restrict gun ownership by requiring gun range time, only to ban gun ranges, are counterproductive.

How do you kill a meme? There are societal factors that promote this meme, like the 24/7 coverage that incidentally glamorizes the act, but overall, I don’t know what would kill it.

Previous generations had better access to guns; high schoolers in the 50’s were apart of rifle teams and stored weapons in their lockers. Yet we didn’t see mass shootings like this then.

Access to weapons thus isn’t what set off the trend. The idea of a mass shooting became viral, even as overall gun violence declined.

The Boulder shooter went through one. So too did the Aurora shooter. These background checks only stop people with a history.

The Sandy Hook shooter was declined by a background check, so he took them from someone else.

You say “criminal” here, so are you trying to stop mass shooting, or shootings overall? As those aren’t the same thing.

Mass shootings are harder to legislate by their very nature.

Legislation is trying to prevent in-the-moment crimes of passion. If someone is motivated, whether it’s a terrorist, or a criminal organization, or just a “person” who will spend months if not years stockpiling the means to attack (Virginia Tech shooter), there’s little you can do.

The only answer I see is to arm public spaces, more guards, more people with conceal-carry permits, so that more of these turn out like Nick Meli in the Oregon mall. Or how the Brits destroyed attacks like this by the IRA.

In addition, we need an answer to whatever societal decay is giving strength to the meme of a mass shooting.

Do you really want a police state with armed guards everywhere? Because it sounds like that’s what you want.

How can this be the only answer when there’s so many other modern industrial countries not experiencing this and not having armed government guards everywhere?

That’s not what Israel is. Nor the Swiss, so your comparison is flawed.

I want more guards (they can be police, but that’s not scalable by itself), and I want more trained people out in public.

This has worked in other countries, so I see this as practical.

You mean countries who are more homogenous in their make up, have strong ties to their traditional cultures?

You can’t swap our population for theirs; that’s what your comparison is asking for.

Equally, as France became more diverse, it became more violent. Guns laws haven’t stopped the mass attacks they’ve seen.

You can make the argument that as European countries (and Australia) acquire split demographics on the level of the U.S., their violence looks more and more like ours.

Also want to add, while they’re in a far better place than us, Israel still has the second highest gin homicides per capita

By what statistic? I’m not seeing that here:

At least it’s not a twice monthly occurrence.

Have you considered scale? France is smaller than Texas. We would see more attacks regardless just because we’re bigger.

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Should have clarified, that stat is only accurate if you look at wealthy industrialized countries. My bad

The list I just posted puts the likes of Finland and New Zealand way ahead of Israel, so that doesn’t seem to account for the difference.

Sure, a listing of all mass shootings in Europe during the 2010’s lists just over 50 incidents. Despite having more than double our population, the U.S. passed 120 events in the 2010s.



You may be looking at the total? I said gun “homicides”

I see per 100000 on your list:

Israel: 0.68
Finland: 0.20
New Zealand: 0.20
U.S.: 4.46

Well, no, Russia has more shootings and homicides than anyone, which owes to the breakdown they went through after the Soviet Union fell, and their ethnic balkanization.

For Western Europe, you just come back to what I mentioned: Homogenous makeup, but as demographics on the ground shifted, violence including mass shootings ticked up. As you can tell with France, as most of their mass shootings happened in the 2010s:

Cities in Europe with the same diverse makeup of New York or Baltimore have very similar rates of violence (London). If the entire country was that way, their national violence rate would likely be very close to ours.

Fine, but that still leaves Canada, who I would not describe as a violence ridden hell hole or a police state. Same to Taiwan whose slightly below.