Some lies from Reason magazine, AP, Marketwatch and Capital Press about tariffs


#1

I recognize that some of you will reject any notion that your economic planning committee of one and his advisers could possibly be wrong about free markets and free trade, that anything suggesting the newest President-Messiah might be wrong must be fake news and lies, so with my title, I saved you the trouble of saying so.

For those who still have some measure of formerly conservative and free market economic ideology, I offer this to the growing pile of ammunition of use in the argument against Trumponomics:

Tosh, a third-generation farmer who almost always votes Republican, said he’s voting this fall for Blackburn’s Democratic opponent, former Gov. Phil Bredesen, in part because Trump’s trade wars are hurting his family business — a sizable one with some 400 employees and 30,000 pigs. The cost of steel needed for new barns is up, Tosh said, and the expanding pork market stands to suffer under new tariffs.

“This tariff situation has got me very, very, very concerned,” Tosh told The Associated Press. “I just think Bredesen would be better on that situation.” He said Blackburn has shifted “toward the center” on tariffs, “but in my opinion, it’s a little late and not far enough.”

“We fully appreciate that some of these countries have had a trade war against us for years, certainly China would be in that list, and it’s time that somebody really stands up,” Blackburn told AP. “But with that said, it does cause us tremendous concern, just grave concern.”

Tennessee whiskey maker Jack Daniel’s, for example, sends roughly 60 percent of its business out of the country.

Jack Daniel’s parent company was forced to increase prices across Europe as a result of tariffs imposed by the European Union in response to Trump’s tariffs on U.S. steel and aluminum. Shares of the company dropped sharply last month after Mexico announced plans to impose a 25 percent tariff on whiskey in response to Trump’s moves.

“Tariffs such as these, they can only do harm,” said Jack Daniel’s general manager Larry Combs.

Another major Tennessee employer, home appliance maker Electrolux, continues to delay a $250 million expansion in Tennessee “given the uncertainty of U.S. trade policy,” said company spokeswoman Eloise Hale.

“These tariffs are directly increasing our costs,” she said.

The cost of food rose by 0.2% last month, but the increase was more than offset by a 0.3% decline in the price of energy.

Where will these tariffs end? Maybe at the ballot box come fall. One Tennessee farmer who generally votes for GOP candidates says he’ll cast his vote this November for a Democrat, since “Trump’s trade wars are hurting his family business—a sizable one with some 400 employees and 30,000 pigs.”


#2

Still trying to equate the inflation inherent in EVERYTHING due to the rise in oil costs to a few selective tariffs that did not even get implemented before the inflation was well on its way?

That is why Reason are a bunch of liars, they coerce everything to fit their imbecilic version of “Free Markets” that only consider half the equation; buying stuff AND selling stuff is a “Free Market”.

And I can’t contain the laughter at the irony of quoting a FARMER upset by tariffs that are “hurting him”, the most subsidized, corporate welfare recipients in the United States are farmers but I am supposed to believe that this one is just now going to start voting democrat?

Nothing that is as broken and corrupted as our economy will get fixed without turmoil, the alternative is perpetual turmoil while the few in the protected royal class remain comfortable and secure with tax dollars; you can keep wishing for the Statist model if you want but I am all in on blowing this model to bits regardless of how many welfare rats complain about it to “Reason” the “AP” or “Marketwatch”.

Correlation equals causation when there is no other defense for the indefensible I guess, but these voices will have the same effect they have always had; nothing outside of coffee shop discussions.


#3

It’s not few nor very selective anymore.

And you might want to check on what the tariff on metals is doing:

Except Pig farmers don’t get the subsidies you’re talking about.

They get an indirect benefit, because farmers who grow livestock feed are subsidized, but it’s not livestock farmers directly:

We don’t subsidize their product, so if you hurt their ability to sell, it’s just an out-and-out cost to them.


#4

A few?

There is literally nothing different here. It is the same broken and corrupt system that Trump is maintaining. Trump has not once said he’s doing what you say he’s doing – although I’m not sure I know what you think he’s doing.

That farm subsidy (which apparently doesn’t actually apply to this particular “welfare rat”) a ridiculous policy that Trump and the Republicans have yet to discuss let alone end – sort of like the sugar tariff. This should actually worry you – farm subsidies and the sugar tariff are ancient. When will Trump’s tariffs be removed? You are supporting the same thing!

And screw Jack Daniels? The American washing machine consumer? Vacuum cleaner manufacturers? The effects of Donald Trump’s leftwing, anti-trade tax-and-spend crony socialism are getting clearer every single day.

Black is white. Up is down. And protesting state trade policies is “wishing for the statist model”? Is this 1984? Tariffs are literally statism.

That you find any value in Trump’s version of international trade is just absolutely incomprehensible. I find it comical that you consider opposition to a tax statism. And I find it hard to believe those words come out of your fingers.

Don’t forget to malign the lying Capital Press. It ran the AP story.

Furthermore, you ignore the “welfare rats” at your own peril. Many of them voted for him. There are those who will never understand how Trump’s policies are harming them and will continue to vote for them, but it doesn’t take too many pig farmers voting their wallet to jump ship and hand it to a Dim next time around. It’s not like Trump won a landslide. And the saddest thing of all is the Dim might actually end this lunacy, and then we’ll all have to endure even more leftwing economic solutions to problems that don’t exist.


#5

And as expected, no mention of sellers in the pop tart version of “free trade”.

And the claim that Hog Farmers don’t get subsidies is quite special, as if livestock is exempt?


#6

New Zealand’s experience pretty much undermines any case you want to make here.

That’s real world experience RET; why have they gained in productivity since doing this, if exposing yourself to other countries tariffs only leaves your economy vulnerable?

Do you have an explanation?

"The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) runs more than 60 direct and indirect aid programs for farmers. This section summarizes the major ones.

Most of the direct aid goes to producers of a handful of field crops, not to livestock producers or fruit and vegetable growers. In the three largest farm subsidy programs — insurance, ARC, and PLC — more than 70 percent of the handouts go to farmers of just three crops — corn, soybeans, and wheat."

Facts are facts.


#7

So because “most” subsidies go to field crops that automatically means that pork producers don’t receive any??? Just how stupid does one have to be to believe this BS?


#8

Nope, I stated how they get subsidized. Through the feed that other farmers grow.

Can’t call it stupid Dave; it’s the facts.

Now kindly knock off this verbal tick of yours.

If you have a problem, settle it. Otherwise, take your two bits of hate to someone else Dave. I ain’t your chew toy.


#9

It IS stupid. There ARE direct subsidies from the government to the pork growers (and beef industry, for that matter.). If you want to continue to post BS, I can’t prevent it but I CAN call you on it when I see it.


#10

Cool, then you can post a source for it.

Until you do, you’re the one quoting stupid.

Put some damn effort into this, or quit pretending you give a crap.


#11

Look up the federal budget…particularly that of the Dept. of Agriculture. I’m not doing your work for you.


#12

Here is his MO when he cannot refute a post, he does this every single time.

Pick something benign out of the post that has little to do with the post that he wants to die, then make a claim that the benign portion is wrong when he knows that it is not wrong; then he expects the poster who made the claim to furiously begin googling and finding links that will prove the benign point was in fact correct.

Then he will introduce some minutia about the proof to further the pointless debate on the benign statement in the hopes that the poster will now point out his goalpost shift; this will hopefully spur a further debate about whether the goalpost was actually shifted.

When posters fall for this he draws attention away from the original post which condemned his opinion and that he could not respond to; the thread gets filled with irrelevant posts that misdirect the topic down these rabbit trails in the hope that the original post becomes so buried that most will never read it or give up on the thread altogether.

I don’t bite on his bait, the best evidence that I won lies in what part of my posts that he chooses to challenge and which parts he ignores; if everyone refused his bait these threads would be much more informative and interesting. He will never debate with integrity when his position is exposed as indefensible, just misdirect and then misdirect the first misdirection and on and on and on.


#14

Okay RET, I think I know what’s going on here.

You make long, well-articulated posts about what you believe happens when tariffs are left standing in one country, while in another they remain small or nonexistent.

You state that the consequence of this, is that of de-industrialization, and services/retail taking over the lionshare of the latter country’s economy, losing manufacturing capacity.

Your posts are well put and I can see that you’ve put real time & effort into describing your thoughts. And you’ve done so more than once.

Considering the time you put into those posts, it’s understandable that you’re unhappy if you feel those posts aren’t being responded to in full.

You think what I’m bringing forth is just hastily gathered minutia.

But RET, there’s still a problem. I’m sorry if you still feel this doesn’t address your point in full, but it does need to be addressed.

Having a well-thought out theory, is not the same as that theory being correct. There’s one more thing that needs to be done, which is to compare your theory to real-world experience. It’s only then that you know if your theory is on the right track.

Now, I didn’t do a “google search” to answer you on this, either before or now. Rather, I follow a channel called Visualpolitik, who makes showcase videos about the recent economic history of countries, one by one.

This is one of them:

But it’s not the only example I could cite here. Basically, any 1st world country that was socialist in the 1980s, which made reforms towards economic freedom since, and saw their productivity numbers dramatically improve, is the same sort of example I would use here.

Israel is such an example. Australia is such an example. Even Canada is an example.

All of them lowered their trade barriers and got rid of subsidies and neither their productivity nor their industrial capacity shrank as a consequence. It’s only grown. Over the course of 30 years, it’s kept growing, even with China’s appearance into the WTO.

These are sellers, who kept getting better at selling.

I’m testing your theory, against their experience, and I’m asking you, why didn’t they fail in they way you’ve specified? Where was the consequence of them losing capacity, and becoming service-based dominate economies?

If you believe their experience is invalid to assessing whether or not your theory is true, okay, but I’d like you to explain why. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. Nor to ask if you believe there’s any real world example you believe does show your theory in action.


#15

BS. New Zealand has an economy about equivalent to Indiana’s…NOT including the Indy 500.


#16

That only makes the lack of presence more jarring.

If the economy is very small, the effect RET is proposing should be even more apparent.

Small things Chinese do have huge effects there; just look at their housing market.


#17

So what does New Zealand produce that China buys??? Mutton? Wool?


#18

What? Sellers are absolutely part of free trade. Trade requires traders, sellers and buyers. Sellers are buyers and buyers are sellers.

I personally know a seller here in rural America who is hurting thanks to Trump’s tariffs. And there’s another one in the pig farmer. That’s a seller too. So what are you on about?

And according to some more lies, this time from the failing New York Times on Trump’s auto tariff, you are aligned with the labor unions. The industry that Trump wants to “protect” doesn’t even want them, but the labor union does:

Labor unions have been more supportive of the Trump administration’s efforts, though they have warned about the potential harm of disrupting global supply chains and urged Mr. Trump to proceed carefully. In testimony on Thursday morning, Jennifer Kelly, the director of research development at the United Automobile Workers union, said that American workers had been harmed by decades of offshoring, and that a comprehensive investigation into the impact of foreign cars and car parts on domestic manufacturing was “long overdue.”

“We caution that any rash actions could have unforeseen consequences, including mass layoffs of American workers,” Ms. Kelly said, adding “but that doesn’t mean we should do nothing.”

Yes, Donald Trump and many of you folks are making a union argument.


#19

That and, more importantly, Dairy.

As you can imagine there’s a huge lack of consumer confidence of Chinese-made products, in China. They know what their Government-owned or backed companies make tends to be awful.

Remember the formula poisoning scandal?

New Zealander dairy sells well there, because people know they can count on the quality & that it’s safe.

Japanese-made toys sell well in China for the same reason.


#20

You do not care about nations that sell to us while closing off their Markets to our producers, you keep trying to make the case that this is a Free Market and we are losing when we are not even in the fight. You oppose putting pressure on these nations who won’t open their Markets because under your version of Free Trade only consumers who buy China crap matter, those who make stuff in this country and want access to the same Markets in China are irrelevant; any efforts to open these Markets is called “Central Planning” by you.

But politicians giving other Nations full access to our Markets while deciding that they will not insure our producers have access to their Markets is just fine with you, that is not “Central Planning” at all?

In fact, you are fine with every trade agreement giving every nation full access to our consumers while locking out our producers from their Markets, as long as your job is secure there is no “Central Planning” going on?

You are utterly convinced that Market manipulations do not hurt us but you have never attempted to argue or respond when I have explained EXACTLY how that does hurt us.

You continue to embrace the fairy tale that all our money will eventually return to us so no worries, no attempt to show you that this is simply not true because our money has value worldwide without ever needing to see our soil again is not responded to but you do reject this just the same.

You continue to post articles that theorize how Trumps strategy is going to “cost jobs” and only benefit “the Unions” while you are in the midst of an economy that has risen from the highest rate of worker non participation to almost full employment in less than TWO years.

You keep hanging your hat on a philosophy that your opposition wholly rejects, when I explain why you don’t respond except to condemn tariffs of any kind for any reason while offering absolutely no alternative way to actually correct these garbage conditions that your “Non Central Planning” politicians established in exchange for big donations and high paying “jobs” for their “friends”.

You seem to know the only manufacturer in the United States who is not BOOMING so much right now that they are in a bidding war for employees that are in short supply, plus you have a government subsidized pig farmer that is going to vote democrat because he can’t seem to make any money either; these take precedence in your “philosophy” over ALL of the economic data that the rest of the country is living in the midst of.

If Obama had it right and Trump does not “get it” then why is everyone else buried in work and turning record profits? Why has oil consumption risen so fast that the Frackers cannot keep up? Why is the inflation that the oil price is causing not slowing anyone down? Why is your empty pocket manufacturer bemoaning the steel tariff for raising his costs when everything else is rising do to the oil Markets?

More importantly, why are you buying their “explanation for their woes and worries” to the exclusion of all the real data and FACTS regarding inflation in general? I can think of many reasons why people would choose to be selective about who they are going to blame but why are the pig farmer and the one US manufacturer who can’t seem to get a foothold in THIS economy the beginning and end of your topic research?

Your philosophy is not wrong, your understanding of how it has been corrupted and why it needs to change is what is wanting; you offer bumper sticker slogans that sell well in Libertarian circles and academic halls which never look at or even admit the existence of nuances that eradicate the very philosophy that you claim to embrace.

You quite simply cannot fix a system that is as corrupted as ours is for as long as it has been corrupted without a fight, those who want the status quo will fight back in an attempt to keep it.

You are claiming that I am “siding with the Unions” because on one issue they have drawn the same conclusion as me?

Do you apply the same the reasoning to yourself? Are you siding with Pelosi, Obama, McConnell, McCain, every host on MSNBC and the rest of the media, Schumer, Brown, Clinton and Soros?
Would you like me to build an exhaustive list of ALL of the “great economic minds” like those who are gut wrenched over Trumps attempts to break up their crony economic deals? Would you apply the same standard to yourself that you have attempted to use on me (in lieu of a coherent argument I might add)?

You are staring into the face of the best economy in over a decade and preaching doom over decisions that are barely months old, weeks in some cases; in fact you were blaming tariffs for rising steel costs in another thread before the first pound of steel had even been laden with the tariff. That was when I started pointing out the much more plausible cause which is the inflation that is happening EVERYWHERE due the oil price, I believe this makes 10 or 12 times I have pointed that out in multiple threads; the reason I do is because it is irrefutable and has therefore been COMPLETELY ignored by my critics on this subject.

I could be wailing about the cost of fuel that almost doubled since the economy took off just like your manufacturer is whining about steel tariffs, but the rates are rising faster than the fuel even in this Communist crap-hole of a State that I live in.

The test of a philosophy is how it works, you can’t drag an economy from of a decade of stagnation to record setting levels by violating Free Trade principles, you can however achieve that by taking steps to revive Free Trade principles; opening Markets to BOTH buyers and sellers is far more important than any tariff that gets laid to force those Markets to open on BOTH sides. If your cronies don’t like it (and they never will) then that is too bad, competition is what makes it all work and they know damn good and well that we can beat them on any field that is not fixed.


#21

New Zealand does not produce or consume enough of anything for China to worry about, they do not employ any of the tactics against New Zealand that they use against us; there is not a single Market that would even notice if New Zealand disappeared into a volcano tomorrow.