The Flight 93 Election


#1

The Flight 93 Election

Interesting article focusing on the ineffectiveness of principled conservatism over the past quarter century and the underlying logic of principled conservatives as part of the nevertrump coalition. The paper does not address the concerns of the open-borders/free-trade establishment who are obviously comfortable with Hillary’s impact on their bowl of rice. Rather an examination of the attitudes of the principled conservative and social conservative intellectuals points to the fact that they do not believe opening metaphor of the paper:

“2016 is the Flight 93 election: charge the cockpit or you die. You may die anyway. You—or the leader of your party—may make it into the cockpit and not know how to fly or land the plane. There are no guarantees. Except one: if you don’t try, death is certain.

I happen to believe that the metaphor is spot on. I would be interested in rational arguments against it that go somewhat deeper than past business related contributions to Pelosi, Clinton et al, Planned Parenthood comments or nasty counter-attacks on political opponents. It seems to me that your disagreement is with the bold type portion of this short quote.


#2

^From that article

> the right stances on the right issues—immigration, trade, and war—right from the beginning.

Immigration: Changed his mind.

Trade: He’s a protectionist, so he’s instantly disqualified. Either you’re free market, or you’re just some form of socialist.

War: He says Iraq was a mistake, and that Bush lied. Hey, which, I personally agree with, but I didn’t recall most other right-wingers thinking that way.

> Decentralization and federalism are all well and good, and as a conservative, I endorse them both without reservation. But how are they going to save, or even meaningfully improve, the America that Continetti describes?

This is no different than asking how ending the minimum wage would alleviate employment problems. If a man is choking to death, you should stop choking him. Yes, this does help.

> Third and most important, the ceaseless importation of Third World foreigners with no tradition of, taste for, or experience in liberty means that the electorate grows more left,

Cubans. Vietnamese. Hell, even Venezuelans, all point out how this is wrong.

People who have lived to experience Socialism’s ills, are very much open to the idea that socialism is itself wrong. Those people, all majoritivly support conservatives in elections. They could have been joined by more… but we were too busy forwarding Unionist BS.

Identity politics; it’s not Conservative, and it won’t save conservatism.

> On trade, globalization, and war, Trump is to the left (conventionally understood) not only of his own party, but of his Democratic opponent.

WOW. Okay, I’ll give major props for saying that much.

> By “it” I mean Trumpism, broadly defined as secure borders, economic nationalism

A term the left loves to throw around. Here’s Obama doing it. Here’s Clinton doing it. Here’s Bernie Sanders doing it.

A term that means you likely don’t get economics. Politics rather is your ball game, and you only pay attention to economics where it intersects with your political concerns. Which mean everything you know about economics itself, is shallow, and incomplete, and you will bend its claims where you find convenient.

Because you were never truly interested in economics to begin with. If it had no intersects with your true interests, you would have ignored it entirely.

Leaving those of us who do have an interest in economics for-its-own-sake, shaking our heads at the naive philistine, dimly trying to “instruct” us as to what is or isn’t “important”.


#3

Not buying the metaphor. Trump can’t save this country. The second coming of Ronald Reagan couldn’t save this country. Only the Lord can save this country, and our country has turned its back on Him. I feel certain that it isn’t coming back to anything good until after the tribulation.

Trump is not my leader for the attack on the cockpit because he is not on my side. I’m not going to vote for Stalin to avoid Hitler.


#4

How do you turn your back on the policies of Trump. Secure the border, build a wall, take care of vets and police, Make America great again. Yeah…it all sounds just terrible don’t it?

Yet some want to sit back and piss and moan during this whole thing…what do you think that shows…that you’re principled? LOLOL. you’re babies, whiners. spoiled. noses out of joint. you didn’t make this much of a fuss when your party was picking your rino candidates and shoving them down your throats. Make the damn choice. It’s OUR country. Sure. You have no guarantee that he’ll do all he says…but you sure as hell know that Hillary is pure poison for this country and she’ll keep her promises…more refugees, more taxes, more laws aimed at you to give the filth element in this country more power over us and what’s left of our money…more Obama poliicies.


#5

[MENTION=13403]Alaska Slim[/MENTION]


#6

On Trump:

He is NOT an Isolationist, he is not against trade and a whole raft of things that many say, most of which is not true and worse is misunderstood.

Trump has a shining star and its one I can identify with as we share a common bond in one area that we can agree on…we are BOTH CAPITALISTS. I am in my 5th privately owned company which I am the founder. My current company is going into its 6th year and very successful. I only say this to establish the link and the thinking we share as Capitalists.

Any successful capitalist depends upon a lot of input in order to make decisions that bring increased success. When I saw Trump on TV recently ask the audience of supporters what they thought on illegals and then Trump listened to the data input and some say he ‘flip-flopped’. NO, he may have made some changes based upon new information but flip flop, not really. I fully expect he will approach the position of POTUS like he runs his companies, listening to his staff, calling in experts and making the decision from the data that is available.

I fully expect him to surround himself with conservatives and folks who are experts AND successful in their field. Capitalism is the very heartbeat of America and its that capitalist engine in post WWII America that LIFTED the entire world’s standard of living and we enjoy the highest standard of living the world has ever known. And its that Capitalist sprit that drives Trump, he think in what will benefit America and he benefits in the process. Make his company successful and he will reap the rewards, make America Great and he will be great along with it. Vs Th Klintons, who singular goa is THIER benefit and the do not care who or what aka USA, gets trampled in the process. Trump WILL NOT sell out America, the Klintons ALREADY have and their goal is to continue. They may and their goal maybe to be the first BILLIONAIRES to arrive that never produced a product and the only thing they sold was OUT. Leaving America and its people poorer in the process.

Trump was never my first or even second choice, but he is the horse I must ride if I want to win and IMO he offers a ray of hope, a light at the end of the tunnel, Hitlery will dose any light left as her and Bill trample over everyone to attain their own personal goals.

I don’t see Trump as any savior, because I do not believe there is a savior unless the heavens open up and Jesus comes down. IMO America is past the tipping point and Trump can only slow the fall but fall we will because we can ONLY lose the war of Capitalism vs Socialism. We cannot out liberal the liberals, there is nothing else left we can give away for free and America like a druggie, will have to hit bottom before it can rise again…think USSR!


#7

I turn my back on European-style politics. Right wing, or left. They’re both anti-Liberty.


#8

I am a little confused. If my memory is correct, a few months ago you would have supported Senator Cruz if he had won the nomination. But what would be the point of that if nothing short of divine intervention will save this country? Perhaps we have different interpretations of what “save” means. I would suggest that you put some biographies of Hitler and Stalin on your reading list. This would save you from future embarrassments of such absurd comparisons. Sadly, you are not the only one on this forum to make such fact free comparisons.


#9

Alleged policies of Trump. Talk is cheap, and Trump’s talk has changed even during the campaign, let alone from before to during.

I never suggested that Cruz could save the country. I would vote for him (and probably will write him in) because I feel he shows integrity (not necessarily perfect, but enough to where I believe he really cares about issues rather than polls).

I have read about Hitler, and to a lesser degree, Stalin. I was making an analogy; it wasn’t absurd. The absurdity is in thinking that Donald foot-in-mouth-follow-the-polls-pro-transgender-bathroom-choice Trump can be relied upon to honor campaign promises.


#10

OK, now we are getting somewhere. In your judgement Cruz would try to follow through on his promises, possibly succeed on some of them and the end result would at least be better than a Clinton presidency. I don’t disagree with this. Your conclusion is largely based on your assessment of his character and style.

Now we get to Trump. Let’s examine the pluses and minuses.

  1. “foot in mouth” I take this to mean that some of his comments on POWs, John McCain, “lying Ted”, the Muslim gold star parents etc. you found in poor taste. I did too. He has a go for the jugular campaign style that got him the nomination. Ask yourself this: If you didn’t know anything at all about Bill Clinton but heard one of his speeches on an issue that you did not totally disagree with, would you have a positive or negative impression of him? Campaign style is not an infallible indicator of character.

  2. “follow-the-polls” Every politician, including Senator Cruz, will occasionally dance around their position in a political campaign. As to Trump, I can give you links to interviews 25 years old where his positions on jobs, illegal immigration, trade etc. are indistinguishable from those he has today.

  3. “pro-transgender-bathroom-choice” He did, in a way, dodge this issue. His constitutional position is that it was not federal and should be left to the states. He is trying to broaden his support with gays and the gender confused who might be in agreement with many other issues that you and I support. The federal government has no business in this but the individual states are not so constrained. A representative government in your state may very well pass a law that you find offensive on restrooms or abortion. Fight it, live with it or vote with your feet but don’t ask the president to federalize it.

The pluses:

  1. He isn’t in it for the money.

  2. He has used the existing real world American economic system to create jobs, build great projects, raise a fine family and make a lot of money.

  3. He truly loves America.

I find it inconceivable that he will turn his back or fail on all of his campaign promises; illegal immigration, taxes, regulation, supreme court nominations, veterans care, protection of religious freedom, rebuilding our military, combating terrorism, regaining American stature in the world. Hillary will do none of these things.

I’ll respect your final decision in November but I hope that you will consider these things.


#11

Trump supports and praises Planned Parenthood.

Trump blames external trade and fiscal policies for Americas inabilty to compete instead of our internal tax and regulation policies, meaning his “solutions” will make the problem worse.

Trump has suceeded by bribing politicians to eradicate the need for him to compete with others, which is exactly how our government bureaucracies endure and prosper while doing a horrible job.

Trump will not “build a wall” or embrace any illegal immigration scheme that is different from what Lindsay Graham would do as President. (As obvious as this is I will still spend the next 4 years pointing it out if he wins).

Trump will let his lust for money and self aggrandizement dictate his every decision as President just as he has expressed no other priority in his 70 years on this planet.

Trump has expressed the same hatred and vitriol for Constitutional Conservatives that the Democrat Party expresses, if not worse.

Voting for Trump may be like “charging the cockpit” but not in the interest of saving the plane but to help the highjackers figure out the instruments.


#12

Well, then you can vote for Hillary.


#13

what would Mccain and Romney do about Planned Parenthood. LOLOL


#14

The same as Trump, fully fund them with taxpayer money; every Liberal is a carbon copy of every other Liberal.

Which is why I don’t vote for Liberals.


#15

Some of your points may have been relevant in choosing a nominee, some are flat out false. I can feel your bitterness and disappointment jumping out of the page. I guess national suicide is your final choice. I sincerely hope that you are able to articulate all the faults of the Trump administration for the next four years. When and if he strays, I’ll be right there with you.


#16

He’s lost more money than he’s gained. If he simply put the money his father gave him into stocks, and did basically nothing, he would be richer than he is now.


#17

Putting aside the crony capitalists, Chamber of Commerce, Club for Growth types whose cash motivation is obvious, I think I have some clue as to the mindset of conservatives who vehemently oppose Trump with their largely fact-free and/or irrelevant slurs. It is the defect in all ideologies whether political or religious:

Everything is Black or White.

If you are not 100% on their team you are therefore evil and incapable of any good.

Any rational logical arguments not in lock step with their ideology are necessarily based on lies.

Any failures of their ideology can always be blamed on someone else.

And you thought that only liberals were whining victims! Every minute you spend trying to communicate with these people is a minute of your life that you will never get back.


#18

Even though the likes of the Manhattan Institute, CATO, and Mercatus, have skewered the Chamber of Commerce when they engage in such actions?

Really, you think money is their motive too?

Not that economics is a discipline people spend their entire lives attempting to understand, regularly pooling their tested knowledge among their peers, and coming to educated conclusions of how it works?

Conclusions you’ve hand waive, as, it gets in the way of your political agenda?

Because politics, of all human disciplines, understands reality the best, in a non-superficial manner, never abridging facts or making assumptions for the sake of short-term gains? Never demonizing people for its own sake, or failing to take the long-term view?

Of course.

> Everything is Black or White.

> If you are not 100% on their team you are therefore evil and incapable of any good.

> Any rational logical arguments not in lock step with their ideology are necessarily based on lies.

> Any failures of their ideology can always be blamed on someone else.

The first person to complain about “ideologues” was Napoleon. Ironically, history recounts that they were right about him.

Jonah Goldberg wrote rather adeptly on it in the Tyranny of Clichés.


#19

Speaking for myself, I admit my folly in having held my nose and voted for McCain. I did NOT repeat that folly with Romney.

Or I can make like Brewster’s Millions and vote for None Of The Above.

I take his foot-in-mouth moments to mean that at best, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and at worst, didn’t have a chance to learn a scripted response. If he can’t speak about issues that matter any better than that, I see no reason to trust him to act on them any better.

As to the polls, I’m speaking so literally here; I figured it was a mistaken belief in what the polls were saying that had him supporting transgender bathroom-of-choice use. And although I don’t remember the exact wording in the clip I heard, that IS essentially how he expressed it; it certainly wasn’t about Fed vs State.

“He isn’t in for the money.” Not buying.
Others have addressed his economic track record more knowledgable than I could.
“He truly loves America.” Because he says so? Possibly better than Hillary, but I’m not holding my breath on this one, either.

Actually, I’ve been running into a little of this from Trump supporters because I don’t.


Gary Johnson Loses It! Goes Full PC Over Term ‘Illegal Immigrant’ [VIDEO]
#20

@17Oaks
I agreed entirely with your post…you’re my kind of guy and I like your dog too! I’m a Trump supporter and have been from the get go!