The problem with "liberals"


#1

The problem with this stuff is that people are soooo quick to want to punish others, so self-righteous. It makes NO difference what this man has done in the past. No one is “judging him by the content of his character”, rather he is being judged by 4 letters in a sentence.

Then he’s tied to the social media equivalent of a whipping post in the town square and flogged to professional death.

There is plenty of REAL racism and oppression in this country and it’s not limited to minorities. Poor people of all races and creeds have similar issues.

IMO, this only makes the outrage in the “right” (and some like me on the “left”) more intense and stokes feelings of resentment that as white people there are words that can slip from our mouths and ruin our entire professional careers.

Some of you may be a little surprised by my reaction but remember that, in our conversations on morality, I said that the group decides what is moral, but that just because the group decides something is immoral doesn’t necessarily make it so. The question before us is, does firing this man for what he said to accomplish the goal of reducing racism? NO, clearly this only fuels resentment and exposes blatant hypocrisy. IIRC, Bill Mahr said House N*G**R on his show. He wasn’t fired, and rightly so. He was judged via his past actions, and while he was flogged, and rightly so, he survived. He apologized and let his viewers know what he stands for. If Bill Mahr gets a pass, I think this guy should have had a chance. Is he really a racist? Is there is history in writing or in person? If not, he deserves a chance, especially given the context of his remark.

It’s gone WAY too far and is a perfect example of where the stated goal and results do not align.

EDIT: Btw, after reading this, I don’t want anyone to think that only liberals care about racism. I believe that no one here is an overt racist nor do I think people on the “right” are racist, however, racists often align themselves with the right. The issue between us, if any is what actions we might call racist and what should be done to limit it.


#2

Nonsense! You lefties flogged the GOP because David Duke, of all people, once ran for public office as a putative “Republican” even though nothing about his past was even remotely GOP-like. He was a leader of the KKK, for God’s sake! The most UN-Republican group in the country which was ALWAYS made up of Democrats throughout its chequered history from its founding during Reconstruction to it’s marches in support of the Democrat national conventions in the 30’s and into the 40’s. It was a Democrat who appointed a KKK member to the SCOTUS and a Democrat who was a proud member of the KKK while serving in Congress who only tried to cover up his affiliation when the Democrats decided to repudiate that organization as a “tactic” to attract black voters.


#3

Don’t lump me in with the kinds of people that supported this man’s firing just because we might agree on other matters of policy. I think for myself and often disagree with so-called “leftist ideas”.

I don’t think that all Republicans are racist by virtue of the fact that they are Republicans, but the fact remains that most overt racists are, in fact, Republican. DD is an example of that.

Now I know Ret is going to come here and tell me (Or maybe you Dave) that Dems are really the racists because the policies they’ve supported have led to poverty etc, etc… I don’t have the energy to address that, I’ll just say that even if I were to concede that were true, that’s not the goal of the policies in question and it isn’t the intention of the people that support them. At best they are guilty of being wrong, that doesn’t make them racist.


#4

Nonsense, of course. Democrats have ALWAYS been the real racists in this country, despite the fact that they’ve successfully (with the compliance of the so-called "mainstream media) deflected the conversation to accuse Republicans of being so. One thing I’ve ALWAYS noticed is, if you want to know what the Democrats are up to or what they believe, just watch what they accuse Republicans of doing or believing. They accuse President Trump of conniving with the Russians to win the election, but it was DEMOCRATS who did so–$145 million in “donations” to the Clinton Foundation, the so-called “dossier” prepared BY Russians and foreign ex-spy Steele and paid for BY the DNC and Clinton campaigns, just as a couple of examples.


#5

What you are witnessing here, csbrown28, is how the extreme left operates. Everybody has to toe the line and think and vote the same way. It’s the party discipline that is supposed to keep the left-wing message coherent, but it has come to be of great concern to classic, old time liberals like, lawyer Alan Dershowitz. He has expressed grave concerns about where the left-wing branch of Democratic Party is headed. Unfortunately this attitude has resulted in the rise of anti-Semitism among some left-wing Democrats because their support for the Palestinian Movement.

It’s all tied in with political correctness with respect to speech and identity politics. It provides a pretext which makes any action that the left-wing herd views as a “offensive” to ride people out of the party and out of their professions. It is interesting note that ultra-liberal commentator, Juan Williams, ended up a Fox News because he was ridden out of his former position at a left-wing cable outlet for saying the wrong thing.

This mentality took its extreme forms under Stalin in Russia in the 1920s and ‘30s when he consolidated his power over the country. I am not saying that we are anywhere near that situation yet, but there are elements in the Democratic Party who would like to see it come to pass. Some of them don’t know enough history to realize the direction they are going. It will be interesting to see how much of this takes hold during the Democratic primary season.


#6

Sure, with the exception of the KKK, which is a Democrat organization, despite David Duke, who was a Democrat until the late 80’s.


#7

So you think that most KKK members are Dems today (/chuckle)? What’s next, you going to say that the KKK originated in the north rather than the south?

We both know that what each party has stood for has changed several times over the last 100 years.


#8

No, I know they are still Democrats.


#9

I wouldn’t know about that but most of the white democrats I know at best despise black people (and usually Jews, too), while most of the republicans don’t care about race at all.


#10

Nonsense, of course. The Dimwits have succeeded (with media compliance) in fostering the meme that the Southern Racist Democrats “switched” to the GOP because a Democrat President signed into law the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, empowering black voters. That’s pure, unadulterated bullisht! Neither Act would have passed at all without the GOP votes because the Democrats filibustered both. The South switched to the GOP, not because of “racism” but because, with the destruction of the Democrat-populated KKK, it was “Safe” again for people to run as and vote as Republicans since the KKK was just as prone to kill Republicans as they were blacks throughout its history. They blame Nixon for doing this, btw, by actively recruiting southern racists to the Party…which is ALSO pure, unadulterated bullisht. The ONLY Southern Democrats who switched to the GOP were Strom Thurman and Jesse Helms and BOTH of them were as likely to side with the GOP as their own party when they WERE Democrats. They were CONSERVATIVES first and both recognized early that there was no place for them in the Democrat Party any longer.


#11

Amen!
Let it be noted that I gave @csbrown28 a like.

Oh, oh. You almost wiped out your attaboy with that wrongful statement.

When a Christian right Republican meets a person of a different race, he realizes the Lord God created him the way he is, and loves him too. Though we may choose to not associate with him because we may have grow up in a very different environments with very different viewpoints. That’s not racism, it’s freedom of association.

But Democrats, or more specifically, leftists, seem to be focused on race. Race isn’t just a detail to note and move on. No, they consider it the defining characteristic of a person. They pass laws to guarantee outcomes according to their own beliefs of the way things ought to be. And they shame people based on racial words, as in this case. That’s not freedom. They require everyone to take action based on race. The focus on race is kind of racist.

BTW, is there ANY racial word that someone could call a white person that would be considered offensive?


#12

Democrat “policies” (to the extent that they HAVE real “policies”) tend to treat racial minorities as pets to be taken care of to insure their political support come Election Day. Other than that, they don’t much care about them. Democrats continue to pat themselves on their backs for electing Obama…twice…which they see as “proof” that they aren’t racists. It makes no difference to them that Obama and his sycophants were the WORST Administration in the last 120 years or so. It will probably also insure that he’s the LAST minority elected President in the foreseeable future unless the GOP puts up someone like Thomas Sowell–who likely wouldn’t take the nomination in the first place.


#13

There are actions and intentions. You can argue that the actions that Democrats take and consistent with their stated intentions, but the fact remains that the intentions of Democrats as a political group isn’t to promote racism.

LOL. There is a lot I don’t like about Obama and what happened during his term, but that’s comical compared to Trump.


#14

Explain why, the day after President Trump was elected, was the very day the stock markets all took off like rockets and continued to soar until the idiots in the Federal Reserved somehow got it in their heads to slow it down, even though there were little to no signs of inflation on the horizon. ISIS has become a non-entity and NAFTA has been renegotiated to OUR benefit as have many trade agreements with the EU, S. Korea, Japan and even China.


#15

I believe you believe that. I also believe that most people on the right don’t support ideas of bigotry and racism. What I am saying is that for the tiny minority of people in this country that are overtly racist, they tend to vote mostly Republican.

When Trump failed to condemn in clear and unambiguous terms white nationalists in Charlottesville, or speak up when issues have come up (like Steve Kings recent comments), overt racists see Trumps indifference and praise Trump for his reaction and lack of action. They understand that whatever comments he later (usually much later) makes against racism and white nationalism were made to appease his political rivals, or so that’s the way they (racists) perceived them.

Now I really don’t believe that Trump is an overt racist, I think he hates everyone when it’s politically or economically feasible to do so. IF accusing the Central Park 5 of rape get’s him press, then I think he does it for the press, not because he hates black people. He didn’t fail to address the events in Charlottesville for several days for any reason other than he wanted to signal people who are racists. But he does it for their support, not because I believe that he is ideologically aligned with their views, but because overt racists vote and take part in polls and no one else wants their vote, so he’ll take it and deny that he wants it.

He’s a shrewd player, I’ll give him that.

Problem is he has no ideology or sense of morality. His god is himself.

Steve King’s recent comment, for which he has been stripped from committee assignments and rebuked by his Republican colleagues were over the line. For me, it’s when he said something like; “when did the words “white supremacist” become offensive?” Somehow someone is going to try to defend that statement, I know it.

For my part, I think Republicans can do what they want with one of their own. Several Dems have called for his resignation, which, for the record, I don’t agree with. He was (somewhat - read very gerrymandered) fairly elected in his district and represents those people. I think those people should get their representative in Congress and own him. Steve King is just being Steve King. Unlike the weatherman, Steve King has a history of making (at best) controversial comments and I think Republicans are acting like sharks. They don’t confront King until he’s politically bleeding and vulnerable and one of the reasons I think the Republican party is weak on issues of racism.

Do you mean along the lines of N***ER? No, but then again, whites don’t have a recent history of being owned by blacks and knowing that there are still many people living today, many in this forum who remember segregation and treating black people as inferior.

There are some interesting poll stats for you…

  • 52 percent of voters who supported Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election believed blacks are “less evolved” than whites, according to researchers at the Kellog School of Management.

  • In a 2018 YouGov poll, 59 percent of Republicans agreed: “If blacks would only try harder, they would be as well off as whites.”

  • The same YouGov poll revealed that 59 percent of self-identified Republicans believe blacks are treated fairly by the criminal justice system.

  • 70 percent of Republicans agreed that increased diversity hurts whites.

  • Republican-appointed judges give black defendants longer jail sentences, according to a Harvard study released in May.

  • 55 percent of white Republicans agreed “blacks have worse jobs, income and housing than white people” because “most just don’t have the motivation or willpower to pull themselves up out of poverty” according to the Washington Post’s review of data from the University of Chicago’s National Opinion Research Center.

  • Nearly twice as many Republicans than Democrats (42 percent versus 24 percent) believe that blacks are lazier than whites, according to the same NORC poll.

Now I know there will be a thousand reasons why few if any of you will accept any of this as a problem, but that is the problem.


#16

Trump did that all by himself, with his tariffs.

I’ll remind you the biggest one day drop over the last 2 years was in January 2018, a month before Powell began his tenure at the Fed. Also, let’s not forget the meteoric rise of the same markets, even While Janet Yellen and Bernake ran the Fed. Lastly, let’s not forget either that TRUMP appointed Powell.

So what did Obama do that Trump can’t do? Well, he sustained (if you believe the President really has that much effect on the markets) one of the longest increases in the stock market ever and he had all the same issues to deal with (perhaps more coming out of the housing crash).

But I forget, only when Trump is President does the blame lie everywhere else but with him.


#17

I didn’t understand that either. Actually, I don’t know why he didn’t unambiguously condemn both sides in that disturbance. They were both leftists. The right doesn’t identify with anything that happened there in the Democrat enclave of Charlottesville.

But the fact that he delayed answering briefly probably means that he had additional or conflicting information and was taking time to make sure he got it right. Being late is a small problem, but being wrong and having to walk it back is a huge problem. Hate-filled evil-doers in the media will only report (and repeat and repeat) the wrong statement, not the correction.

How many “white nationalists” are there in the whole country? Twenty or thirty? There sure weren’t many in that conflict. I saw a few on TV. The ones I saw looked like they were in their 50’s and 60’s–dirt-bag hippie holdovers. The fact that the stinking hateful media tries to associate them with President Trump and his followers speaks to the media’s hate, not the president’s.

You sound like you listen to hate-filled, fake-news CNN and MSNBC. Have you ever listened to any event broadcast by The White House YouTube channel, including Sarah Sanders’ press briefings? Or did you listen to any of his political rallies in 2006 broadcast live and complete on the Golden State Times, Right Side Broadcasting and Fox 10 Phoenix YouTube channels? If you had, you would have found that he’s not about hate.

The filthy media is so filled with hate that they can’t see anything but hate. They are doing a huge disservice to all Americas.

What has he ever said or done that would cause an honest person to draw that conclusion?

He’s wise enough to not call himself a “conservative” because the godless filthy hate-filled fake-news media has tarnished that word so badly that it doesn’t convey its meaning any more. But his actions clearly show that he’s doing what’s right for America and Americans.

Gerrymandered? A national election? If you want to see gerrymandered, come to the Democratic Peoples Republic of Maryland. Some of our congressional districts look literally like paint droppings.

I notice you didn’t cite any statistics about the percent of crimes committed by blacks. Or the percentage of murdered blacks that are killed by other blacks. It’s may sound harsh, but blacks commit more crimes. That fact skews all your statistics.

Broward County with the Obama Administration tried to fix that problem with the PROMISE Program that allowed non-whites to go without punishment for their crimes. As a result, Nikolas Cruz stayed off the police radar until he murdered 17 people. See, let’s solve the problem of too many minority kids being arrested by just not arresting them.

BTW, I agree that there is NO racial word that anyone can call a white person that’s considered offensive. Some call a white a “honkey” or a “cracker.” But those are more silly slang than slur. No one is offended by them. Why do minorities allow themselves to be so offended? Your statistics or reference to slavery isn’t a sufficient answer.


#18

Doesn’t bother me; he gets it right once in a while. It’s when you “like” Alaska Slim that I start worrying… Okay, I’ve even agreed with him a time or two…

Some of their more vocal members don’t give that impression; from LBJ (“We’ll have those niggers voting for us for two hundred years.”) to Obama and his very race-selective moral outrage about crimes committed by one race against another.

BLM, New Black Panthers.

A century and a half is recent? How many of the in-your-face black bigots alive today even had an antecedent who was a slave in America, let alone remember one?


#19

That’s actually a pretty stupid post, CSB. President Trump, vis a vis Charlottesville, said, “There were good people on BOTH sides of the issue at Charlottesville”…and he was RIGHT. The media (and other Democrats) focused completely on the protestors who WERE white nationalists, but they were accompanied by decent people who merely resented their heritage being destroyed in the name of “political correctness.” The overtly racist organization, BLM, was joined by people who probably honestly believed that having a statue of Robert E. Lee was a “racist” symbol and should be removed. Instead of reporting honestly on the issue, the mainstream media focused on the fact that one protestor, fleeing people beating on his car and windows with baseball bats running over some young woman crossing the street in front of his car and the fact that he was part of the group protesting the removal of the statue, so was, ipso facto, a racist.


#20

These are the people that were being talking about in Charlottesville, and I’m sorry, they aren’t “good people”

That’s what the conversation was about and to say that there were “good people on both sides” is to try to make it easier on those people. That was the point, anything less is just stupid, as you put it.

They weren’t there there to maintain historical heritage and anyone that was wouldn’t have stayed for fear of being lumped in with the white supremacists. It all culminated one on of those “bad” people running over several people and killing one of them and all the leader of the free world can come up with is; “there are good people on both sides”? Despicable and disrespectful and plain stupid.

The issues of the statue is a fair one (and something I’ve addressed here at RO), but the people marching weren’t marching to preserve the history of Robert E Lee general of the southern army, rather as a monument to white superiority, regardless if you and I know that’s not what REL stood for.

Having said that, the problem with this issue is, as I said, a legitimate conversation that should take place about the historical aspect of these monuments and the cancer that is white supreme that has attached itself to these symbols. The Problem in my opinion is that few people, on either side (irony alert) can hold two seemingly conflicting ideas in their heads at once, that being the historical context and a contemporary context. many of these monuments were erected in the 20th century in response to the civil rights moment as a way to create symbols, not just of history but of oppression.

Having said that, that fact too is part of our history and one we should not forget lest we be doomed to repeat it.