The State as Family


The State as Family - YouTube


This is why it is so difficult to get people to think rationally about the state.

Marijuana is drug most often linked to crime, study finds

The State will never be rational.


The last line in the video was “government schooling starts at around the age of five, and thats where the indoctrination begins, and the thinking stops.”

So whadda ya want to do? Abolish all public schools in America and privitize education? How great would that be? Answer: That’d be great!

Lets get the ball rolling on this asap, so where do we start, Connecticut?



Because people are not rational.

Luther correctly observed that the human intellect strongly and heavily participated in The Fall of man in Genesis. Thats just a fancy way of saying that human beings are nutty as fruitcakes.

You don’t doubt that do you? I mean how else can you explain the political situation in Washington, D.C.? How else can you explain the nighty news? How else can you explain the dude in Europe that wanted to be eaten alive as a means of suicide and arranged over the Internet (where else?!!) for a cannibal to come to his apartment and cook him alive and eat him alive? And they actually pulled it off. How else can you explain that? I could sit here and continue with examples all night, but you get the idea because you read history books and keep up with current news events.

So the citizens are clearly not rational, over half the country don’t even vote, and the half that does vote, elects what you see holding forth on prime time news programs. Do you think those politicians holding forth on prime time are rational and offering rational solutions to political problems? I am sure you do not.

Net results: Irrational people will always produce an irrational State because Luther was right when he said that, “The human intellect strongly and heavily participated in The Fall of man in Genesis.” That means Sin as a principle practiced, produces irrationality, and irrationality produces an irrational State that perpetuates it’s irrationality.

Human history, to a significient extent, is the history of Sin and Sin is irrational, by definition. Its irrational to ignore your Creator and to ignore His laws. The Ten Commandments are rational commandments and to ignore them is solid evidence of an irrational mind busy at work practicing lunacy.

So then what is the one an only solution to this Irrational-Mad-Merry-Go-Round? The Christian solution is to admit that the Sin principle practiced is THE problem and then for human beings to learn to stop sinning (at least generally, pefection is not a Christian doctrine). I note that to stop sinning is learned by the human race very gradually and very slowly and very incrementally over a long drawn out process that spans the millenniums.

We Christians believe Christ’s Great Commission is the one and only permanent solution to fix human irrationality that springs from the Sin Principle practiced, and the Great Commission has 2 very simple parts:

(1) John 3:3 with John 3:16 (Repent of your sins, accept Christ as your Savior and become a Christian)

(2) (Galations 5:22-23 (Allow the Holy Spirit to teach you how to be a good Christian and manifest the fruits of the Holy Spirit as listed in Gal. 5:22-23)

Actually doing those 2 things will remove a huge amount of the Sin Principle’s practiced sin from a nation’s population.

A nation of people, the majority of whom, have been taught these qualities by the Holy Spirit: “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control”__Gal.5:22-23 are not going to be practicing a lot of Sin.

/smile … You should consider joining the ranks of people proclaiming the workable solution as I noted above.

You have to go to the very bottom root to find out what the real problem is, and the real problem is the Sin Principle running amuk in a nation’s population.

All human problems are spiritual problems at the root bottom, and there are no political solutions to spiritual problems, there are only spiritual solutions to spiritual
problems. I mean a nation of people ** cannot skip over ** John 3:3/John 3:16 and Gal.5:22-23 and then proceed to “fix its problems” if by “fix” you mean a permanent fix …
… IE a permanent solution … one that will not crop up again somewhere else in another form, as in “same problem” just in a “different form.”


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I think it is how children are raised. People do not have to be irrational. People can be taught to think critically.


Taught! You said “taught.”

Yeah, “taught” is that old “education is the answer” thing thats been going on in America since it’s beginning.

After you add up the net results of American education that you see here in the year 2013, how has that “education thing” worked out for you?

You happy with the net results? No you’re not, yet you want more of it, this time with your idealism as the curriculum.

Bremen, in almost every thread you argue for IDEALISM and here is why doing that is so emotionally and intellectually destructive for you:

You are right! Yes, you are right! You are right about the IDEALS. And you KNOW you are right! And the fact that you KNOW for a fact that you are right has got you by the throat and you cannot get loose from it.

You are held fast in the grip of actually being right. Why is that a bad thing for you? Because you are held in the IRON GRIP OF THE IDEAL and forever driven to argue for a world that can never exists.

You never see human nature as it actually is, instead you forever see the IDEAL HUMAN NATURE that does not exists and can never exists.

Put another way: You refuse to live in the Real World mentally and emotionally.

You are doomed to forever live, intellectually and emotionally, inside a Fantasy World of your very active Ideal Imagination.

Sad, very sad actually.

I would help you get free of the iron grip of Idealman that has you by the throat if I could, but you appear to be locked into forever playing the role of one of Lewis Carroll’s fantasy characters.

Idealman is more powerful that Superman, Batman, and Spiderman combined, and once Idealman gets you by the throat, its almost impossible to break free. Why is that? Because you are right and you know for a fact that you are right! But the killer-problem is this: Idealman, like Superman, Batman, and Spiderman, is a fictious character that exists only in your very active ideal imagination.

And that puts you in perpetual never-ending conflict with Reality.

Post 5 up there is the key to what you really want, but you refuse to open your mind and heart to the truths in post 5 … but maybe you will one day. /smile



I can make these things true in my life. I know that what I believe will not exist in my life time in the population, no need to tell me this. But when I have children I can keep them out of governmental schools, refrain from enacting violence upon them, teach them to think critically and avoid teaching conclusions etc. I can surround myself with like minded people and optimize my liberty by moving to more free states.

I think what the idea of sin avoids is that sinners are created by parents. I believe that honor thy children is a higher and more beneficial ideal for society on whole than honor thy parents. A healthy society starts with mentally healthy children. Overly strict and authoritian parents do not raise healthy children they raise robots. Do as I say not as I do, this is my house, my rules, if you do not like it leave, etc. teaches children conclusions rather than critical thinking. It teaches children to obey, not to question, to obtain answers rather than solutions.


How can you be satisified with an alledged Great Organizing Principle that is only applicaple to your life?

Your principle actually becomes your Ungreat Unorganized Unprinciple because it only fits your small world, and does not at all fit the Huge Reality that actually exists all around you.

I would encourage you to find a really WIDE and really BROAD true Great Organizing Principle and you cannot do that apart from Christianity and the Sovereign God that created not only you, but the Huge Reality of the enormous world all around you. Post 5 up there is your key to a much happier intellectual and emotional world, and it contains the great principles that fits everybody and everything.

You are the god of your own world eh Bremen? … And “MyLiberty” is his real name?

And at the end: “Here lies Bremen, he lived his life to optimize his liberty.”

What kind of a life is that?

How does that kind of life compare with the life and example of the Lord Jesus? (Answer: I think it does NOT compare at all.)

I expect you agree in your heart.

… lol …That from II Bremen 3:16 ?

II Bremen 3:17 ?


Yeah the millions of mentally healthy children in the MTV generation are demonstrating that your plan works like a charm /sarcasm

You assume your child(ren) will be nice and polite like you are. What if one of them is aggressive at age 15 and forces you to either:

(1) Let him be the boss of your house (eg. he wants his 13 year old sister doing drugs with him and his friends just for fun … nothing serious you understand!! )


(2) Get him and keep him under control with physical Force

If that happens, then your “principle” will be out the window, and you’ll have to rethink everything.

You incorrectly assume that children cannot do both, but they can do both.

Children are susposed to obey their parents, they can do that and still end up on the cutting edge of the latest scientific research frontiers.


B I will let you in one a simple truth in this world. There is no one size fits all to raising children. Each is unique and different in their own way. Some children do better under the My house my rules other do not. Your way of think may raise wonderful children or it may raise heathens and burdens to society. Let me know when you have your first child adn then get back to me after 18 years and let me know if it worked out in the best. Until then it is wise not to tell others who have raised children how to raise a child.


You are correct there is not one size fits all for children but there is one think I know that I would never violate and that is enacting violence against my children.

How could a heathen be created without a role model? Where would they learn that behavior from? Children are not born bad and have to be shaped into good people. They are born basically with instincts and as blank slates. It may hurt but what ever failings morally a child has is because of the parent.


You know, we don’t even need to abolish the public schools. We simply require all conservative and traditional minded parents to pull their kids from the public schools or make the decision not to send their future children to public schools and this will make it untenable for the schools to survive. Think about this: With half or more of the students missing from the schools, a strong argument can then be made for these families refraining from the school tax. The schools with many less students would not require the funds currently appropriated (or misappropriated, in my eyes…LOL) for these purposes; therefore, they would be forced to lay off taxpayer-supported teachers. Unions would lose dues and income and power. When fence-sitting Independents see that the Conservative/Traditionalist parents are pulling their children to homeschool them (as is our right as parents in every State in the Union) they will begin delving into this possibility. Even assuming that only half of these Independents pull their children, that’s just one more chip out of the Education tree with the homeschooling axe. Then, there will be the uninformed Democrat parents (and there are a ton of them) who were absolutely in the dark about their rights as parents who are suddenly verrrry curious about what this homeschooling thing is really all about. Let’s say that newly awakened Libs begin to pull their children from public schools…say a quarter of them. This would be the death knell of the public school system. It would most certainly be the final straw in the funding of the Department of Education, who’ve been at the helm of our ruined and abysmal public education system for the past 40 years. President Carter created this failure in 1979 with 17,000 government employees to the tune of a pittance of 14.2 billion dollars. Currently, the number of employees is not listed on the government website, however, the Department has 29 separate offices and boasts an annual funding of 68.4 billion (with a “B”) dollars! If that doesn’t make you angry, just consider the fact that our students’ ranking in the world in language skills and math skills are in the double digits. Connecticut, where I am from currently, is a State that spends the most per student per capita of any State and our scores compared to the rest of the country are horrific (one of the reasons that I first considered homeschooling). When a kid is coming home from school here in Connecticut with a crayon-etched Pledge to give up his Constitutional Rights to privacy in order to be kept safe, you know what sort of student this State wants to mold. We are doing nothing but getting worse in education. Their formula was not by accident. This is all purposed. We will create the brainless automatons of the future Democrat party using this system. Their formula: Remove religion, remove family, remove tradition, remove history, remove rights…add a sprinkling of Progressivism, racism, environmentalism, Obama heraldry, propagandist Evolution teaching, religious tolerance of Islam, and then a smidge, just a smidge, of capitalism-hating, oil-fearing, industry-oppressing, species-dwindling lying, and voila! You’ve got our education system in a nutshell.



Hello drazor, how ya doing! Great I hope. I see you’re from Connecticut! Don’t worry, God will forgive you for that. ( … lol … thats a joke )

Say thats a very good read down there, I enjoyed reading that. I’m gonna up-the-size just a tad and break up your well-written wall of text in hopes that some of our more elderly senior citizens here will come along and read what you wrote.

Some of them have already announced that their eyes will not permit them to engage a close packed wall of text, and I think there are also some young ones here that often pass-on-by walls-of-text without reading them.

Imo, if you want to be read, you have to at least break-up the text wall, imo you do NOT have to up-size it, but you do have to break it up. All this in strictly my opinions, you of course will continue to post exactly like you want to post. /grin

drazor, I’m with you in spirit, but in your opening lines you said, “We simply require all conservative and traditional minded parents to pull their kids from the public schools or make the decision not to send their future children to public schools and this will make it untenable for the schools to survive.”__drazer

You of course know that we could not really “require” them to do that, and I am sure you know that getting any sizable group of people to even agree on the color of cow poo is like “herding cats”, and getting a huge-enormous group like “all conservative and traditional minded people” to agree on your plan would be like trying to “herd 100,000 house cats” and keep them in a pack walking along … lol … impossible.

Sad to say there are huge numbers of “conservative and traditional minded parents” that love the public schools because the particular public schools in their area are not boldly pushing controversal social doctrines, at least not in the parent’s perception.


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Thanks for the heads-up about the text size…noted.

As for the “requiring” line, of course I was not inferring that we lawfully mandate this action. What I meant by the line was, if we were to enter the path of abolishing schools, it would require that these people pull all their children from public schools…not that we would dream of requiring any such action.

Your comment about some conservative/traditionalist parents not wishing to pull their children due to the fact that their particular school district may not be pushing a socialist agenda (or that they do not perceive it as such) is so very true. There is also a deep-seated fear on the part of normal everyday parents who believe (through either inference or indirect ignorance to the actual law) that they are not “allowed” to homeschool their own children. In fact, not only do they believe that they’re disallowed from this practice, but that they will have their children yanked from them if they decide to do so.

This, by the way, is not by accident. The Department of Education has been doling out innuendo to such for decades. How often, for instance, have you heard the old adage that homeschooled children are socially inept? That they will not be able to normally interact with other children? That is a ludicrous charge, first, and second, it is absolutely ignorant to what homeschooling is altogether.

People who know nothing about homeschooling make all these assumptions based on this innuendo and they are then, rightfully, fearful. That is the end game for the Department of Education and the public school system in general. They want parents to fear.

There is also the fear that parents aren’t “qualified” to teach their children. This is also a farce. Since the beginning of time, parents have been teaching their children. Before schools, parents were teaching their children. People are not even privy to the fact that universities and colleges actually seek out homeschooled children before others because of their exceptional scores (my friend actually thinks they do this because these children avoided brainwashing and they want to draw them into the fold of Progressivism…LOL). I mean, honestly, if we’re going to go by qualification, let’s take a long, hard look at the test scores of the average American publically-educated child. If we’re to use these results to gauge how qualified a person is to teach, well, then I hate to say it, but our public teachers and our public education system is completely and utterly unqualified.

There is also the matter of the course of academics or State-imposed curriculum. Most people are not aware that nearly every State in the US cannot mandate a certain curriculum that you must follow. Neither are you compelled to have your homeschooled child tested by the State standards. In fact, nearly every State cannot even force you to formally announce your intention to homeschool or register your child as being homeschooled. Even in a very liberal State like Connecticut, the ultimate educational choices are left up to the parent and its laws and Constitution also state that the parent has the final say in all of the child’s educational courses.

You’d be surprised, truly surprised, at how much we assume about homeschooling that just isn’t true. These fallacies have been proffered by the Department of Education since the 1970s because they want the parent to stay fearful and non-cognizant of what real, effective, and core education can be. People would really benefit to read their individual State mandates on education. It is an eye-opening experience. I’ve got lots of stories, let me tell you.


drazor @14


And thank you for your reply to my post, I read your 14 very carefully and I understand your points, and btw its always a pleasure to read a well-written post, and yours was much appreciated. I also very much appreciate your OP in your Introd thread, which I just read a few minutes ago.

I wanted to mention that Pete has some very good thoughts on Homeschooling and as I recall Pete and his wife homeschooled their children, and I am reasonably certain Pete would find your posts in this thread interesting and that he might have something worthwhile to add to what you have said.

I think I will send Pete a PM link to this thread just in case he has missed seeing your posts herein. Of course, you and Pete may have discussed Homeschooling before and it might be an “old thing” for you all, but even so, it will not hurt to see if Pete has a word to add to what you have said or a word to add about the joys and sorrows of Homeschooling.


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What kind of music do you like?

You like this?
Andrea Bocelli feat. Sarah Brightman Canto della Terra - YouTube



Thanks for the kind words and for the referral. I did not know that Pete is also a homeschool parent. I will definitely trade some wisdom with him. As for the music, I like nearly everything.

This clip is unbelievable. Very cool stuff. What a voice!


/grin …You can get hooked on Sarah Brightman in a flash, hooked on Bocelli too.

For the beautiful English lyrics to Canto Della Terra (the clip you said was unbelievable and cool) see Post 2 here:

Also, if you liked Canto Della Terra sung as a duet by Andrea Bocelli and Sarah baby, then I think you will love the version of Canto Della Terra she sings with Alessandro Safini inside Saint Stephens Cathedral, a magnificient beautiful Christian Church in Vienna. See Post 5 in the same link:


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No reply necessary, I know we all like different music, and I am only giving you a link up there because you greatly liked the Andrea Bocelli/Sarah Brightman version of Canto Della Terra, and I think you’ll enjoy the Alessandro Safini/Sarah Brightman version just as much, if not more.

If you ever become a steady fan of this type of music you can **bump the thread linked above and put your comments there, and we can kick it around. I have everything that Sarah Brightman and Andrea Bocelli has out on DVD, (about 26 music DVDs) and I love to share links to their songs.

**threadjackery is a crime punishable by the loss of the index finger on the right hand … lol …and Bremen might not be merciful :freaked: