The US Flag, is using it to express social or political discontent going to far?


#1

So NFL players don’t want to salute the flag. Some of you seem to take that is disrespect to the nation as a whole, rather than a way to show peaceful, political discontent.

For those protesting, my understanding is the discontent over what is perceived as unfair treatment. Not pledging their allegiance is a way to bring attention to that issue.

Now, like many of the things I write here and post, I want to look beyond the issue of whether the issue being protested is legit in your opinion (because there are no facts here, only opinions) and discuss the reaction mostly on the right (or the left if you feel there is something to add on the left), to it, because that is the part I find so interesting.

Is the flag sacred in your opinion? Does failing to salute or desecration of the flag cross some red line?

If you disagree, help me understand your position.

Thanks!


#2

It is their right to protest, and it’s a peaceful protest.
No matter how much bovine excrement their protest is, they undeniably have that right.

However, it is a protest delivered in a disrespectful and unpatriotic manner. That flag and that Anthem do not stand for only some Americans. People that serve in uniform do not serve to protect just white people’s rights. They don’t serve just to defend any single group. They serve, fight, and many died protecting the rights (or interests) of All Americans.
The flag, and anthem are things that symbolize all of us. It is dishonorable to not treat them with the reverence they deserve.

Even Martin Luther King Jr stood for our anthem and saluted our flag.


#3

As I posted on a friend’s page on fb today:

They do have the right to protest peacefully. We wore the uniform to protect that right. However we do not have to agree with their form of protest. I do not. It is disrespectful of everyone who fought and died for this nation. Many of the same folks who are supporting these people are folks who talked down on players who prayed at games, not even protesting, and they didn’t do it during the national anthem. That anthem, and that flag stands for all Americans. No matter someone’s political beliefs, being an American and honoring that flag and anthem should be something that unites us all.


#4

First, thank you for responding and if I haven’t already thanked you for your service, thank you.

I like the way you framed your response, “They do have the right to protest peacefully. We wore the uniform to protect that right. However, we do not have to agree with their form of protest.” because that’s really the issue. I think you’re right, people don’t like the chosen form of protest.

So my question to you is one of action and intention.

Were you offended by the action (not saluting) or the intention (protesting perceived inequality)?

Or do you believe that the intention was to disrespect the nation and those that served to protect it?


#5

What do YOU think these idiots are “protesting?” Could it be the fact that they are making an average of $2 million per year for playing a GAME? Could it be that 73% of the players in the NFL are black–and, like the other black morons rioting because they don’t always get their way, are somehow seen by these players as “kindred spirits?” No one denies that they have the “right” to protest…but WE also have the right to protest their protest on OUR dime. The NFL has the right and authority to prohibit this behavior and if they refuse to exercise that authority, they’ll be cutting their own throats. I’ll never watch another NFL game so long as this crap continues. There are INFINITELY more blacks murdered by other blacks than killed or injured unjustly by police officers, but none of these idiots find it reasonable to “protest” that fact. Out of all the blacks killed by police in the past several years, only one or two were MURDERED. The remainder were killed because THEY did something stupid that made the officer fear for his/her own life. Meanwhile, in Chicago alone, over 500 blacks have been killed by other blacks just this year.


#6

The action of their protest was disrespectful of all who have served. It’s no different than flag burning.


#7

So you’d agree that people have the right to protest in that manner, but you have the right to disagree with their form of protest, that about sum it up?


#8

No, I don’t think that black people are protesting their salaries, but why does how much they make and how they make it, matter?

Now I’m not black and I wouldn’t pretend to know how all black people feel about the subject (and I realize that black people have different opinions on the topic), but it’s my perception that they are protesting their perception that blacks are treated differently on an overall basis when it comes to law enforcement.

It’s too bad there wasn’t a bit more diversity here at RO, maybe we could ask someone.

Could it be that 73% of the players in the NFL are black

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but ok.

“Always get there way?”

That’s rich.

I agree the NFL has the right and authority to prohibit the behavior, just like you have the right to disagree with it. Why do you suppose the NFL doesn’t prohibit it?

There are three possibilities…

  1. The NFL is run by tree-hugging liberal commies.

  2. They feel their band will be harmed more if they prohibit the protests then if they allow them?

  3. All of the above

So what is your prediction?

Trump said:

“NFL attendance and ratings are WAY DOWN. Boring games yes, but many stay away because they love our country.”

Would you agree?

Do you think NFL attendance is waning? Do you think the NFL will lose significant fans as a result?

There are INFINITELY more blacks murdered by other blacks than killed or injured unjustly by police officers

Yes, there are more blacks murdered by other blacks than there are by police officers, that’s true, but a misrepresentation on so many levels and a pretty low bar, but I digress.

Shouldn’t we expect that cops kill fewer blacks unjustly than other people? I mean, do you want me to give cops a collective pat on the back for killing fewer blacks unjustly than other black people? I mean, that’s really bizarre that you’d even say that…

However, isn’t the more relevant statistic, when accounting for population, the question is, how are blacks treated vs whites (what I believe this issue is all about).

Are blacks treated the same?

Now, as tempting as it is to point out some egregious and flagrant examples of where blacks aren’t treated well, I realize that there is a LOT more that goes into it. WE’d also end up dueling via anecdotal examples of where you show examples of white cops treat whites badly, or where black cops abuse their authority against whites and I’d give examples of where blacks are treated unjustly…Really getting us nowhere.

I think the salt in the wound is when white cops aren’t convicted when they probably should be or when whites should be and they aren’t.

I realize that blacks are more likely (again, when accounting for population) to commit crimes. Blacks tend to live in poorer areas etc…So it’s not going to be easy using statistics alone to determine if police are treating blacks differently and perhaps there are larger underlying contributing factors of economics and culture.

The other problem is the problem of perception. There was an experiment done where people (black and white) are given a gun with an electronic trigger. An image is flashed of a person (a lifesize projection is flashed on a wall), some are criminals with weapons and others are just holding a phone and the subject has about 1 second to decide to shoot. The interesting fact that came out of that experiment is that while whites were more likely to accidentally shoot blacks with phones, so were blacks (though to a slightly lesser degree).

This tells us that this isn’t simply an issue of white on black, but a problem of perception about blacks in our culture.

As far as the official number killings of blacks determined to be unjustified, I have seen the evidence for myself and I think, despite the official account, that more than two of the deaths were unjustified.

But here we are limited to our opinions on the matter and, as I said, as tempting as it is to belabor this point, I’ll agree to disagree.


#9

I will not comment on what they are protesting. For me, it’s not really clear what it is. I doubt if all of them have a clear notion of what they are protesting. It is politically correct groupthink and that is good enough for them.

They are employees, on the job, they have no 1st amendment rights.

The NFL has no specific rule that mentions the National Anthem except that it must be played at every game.

The league and/or individual clubs are free to prohibit this behaviour but they have not done so.

There are many ways to give voice to your grievances. Professional football players are in the privileged position of having a camera and microphone at their disposal whenever they want. 99.9% of us do not have that advantage.

I consider the manner of protest repulsive. I include the owners, league and participants in my disgust. If they think this is good for business, more power to them. I would turn them off except I did that years ago when they let that role model for youth, Michael Vick, return to play. A scum bag who has “paid his debt to society” is still a scum bag.


#10

Peaceful protest is fine, protesting racism is fine and encouraged, but doing it in a way that is aimed at the symbols that are meant to unite us all as one American people is wrong and ultimately counterproductive. Protest in concert WITH the flag and anthem not against it!

Agree with Devilneck, this form of protest is wrong.

I will give them credit for peaceful protest as opposed to all the BLM rioting and antifa violence.


#11

Sports are a form of “entertainment”.

I don’t watch “entertainment” for the politics of the “entertainers”!


#12

It’s blissfully ironic you should say that because our President is using his position and his microphone to say things like:

“Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, ‘Get that son of a bitch off the field right now. Out! He’s fired. He’s fired!’”

I suppose that is a statement “meant to unite us all as one American people”…?

LOL.

All of this in the backdrop of what happened in Puerto Rico…Not a single comment or Tweet over the weekend (that I’m aware of) about what happened there, where the conditions are described as apocalyptic. Millions of US citizens need help (some people on the interior of the island still haven’t seen anyone) and instead of using his pulpit raising awareness and asking for people to help in any way they can (or just recognize their ongoing struggle), he decides that the disrespect of the flag is more important than the potential to use his time and his voice to raise awareness.

Now, of course, he could have done both, but you wonder why people criticise him. He’s so transparent.

Sure, because issues of the flag get his base riled up, that’s what they came to see!

Drain the swamp, Trump is a consummate politician, he is the swamp.


#13

way to derail your own thread


#14

Agreed, Silliessis. This was all started by Kapernick (on the advice of his Muslim girlfriend, we’re told) and HE said he was protesting because “America is a racist nation.” Others are copying him now FOR THE SAME REASON. First off, America is definitely NOT a “racist nation,” though Democrats have been racist for most of their existence…if not ALL of it.


#15

You turned it to talk of “uniting people”, I just exposed your hypocrisy on the issue with respect to comments made by our President with respect to the topic of the thread.


#16

Ah but he is (Trump) uniting the people according to a CBS/Reuters poll!


#17

Noowwwwww you’re a fan of polls? LOL


#18

You’re not very good at this distraction ‘stuff’ are you?


#19

Ok, so ask about Trump’s rhetoric and, in so many words, point out how divisive it is.

Your reply to my statement with a poll, that does nothing to refute my claim, instead, you insinuate that because a poll says that a majority think that what Kaepernick did was wrong somehow means that the President wasn’t divisive?

Do you even know what divisive means?

I’m sorry, who’s distracting?


#20

Sorry, I don’t know what polls I disagreed with?