Is this a self-serving photo op pandering to evangelicals and other Christians or is this a demonstration of Trump’s deeply held religious faith?

Regardless of your religion (or lack thereof), you should recognize that the Bible is one of the pillars upon which Western Civilization is based. Western Civilization is under assault, not by the protestors or even the (criminal) looters but the anarchists and Antifa. The President is symbolically exhibiting his commitment to fighting these forces. I don’t know or care what the President’s personal religious beliefs are. His Evangelical support doesn’t care either. They recognize his commitment to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Any other questions?

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And religion is based on a rational understanding of the benefits of treating other people the way you want to be treated.

That’s a pretty broad statement. That said, “Western Civilization” isn’t one thing, it changes over time. Slavery was a part of Western Civilization at one time and I assume you are ok with that change.

Does that include breaking up peaceful protests so he can have his little photo op or threatening to use the US military to quell riots?

I wish he had not done it, but the lines are drawn. The right religious base should be in Trump’s camp. The main objective is to make sure they vote.

I wish that President Trump could get a good speech writer to give an 8 PM address that he could make the nation on national TV instead of all the tweets. He needs to look at some old Ronald Reagan tapes and take some notes. He needs to look more presidential to get the moderate vote.

The conservatives have no choice. The American people have no choice, but a lot of them can’t see it. You can vote for Trump, or you can vote for mentally impaired Joe Biden and the barbarians who will take advantage of his senility. That’s no choice, really. Trump is the only option.

The barbarians and trying to take over, and they are using the George Floyd murder as an excuse. This is the left wing playbook. You take an issue upon which many people, right and left, agree, like this murder, and then the left uses it to expand their reach and influence. I have seen the left play this game constantly, since I was in undergraduate school 50 years ago.

I hope that the violence and looting blows up in the left’s face. They deserve it.

First of all you beg the question. He was never breaking up PEACEFUL protests. Second, I was making the point that , in my opinion, this whole action had nothing to do with Evangelicals.

Western Civilization has emerged and evolved into what it is today. Slavery is a historical artifact of Western Civilization and EVERY other civilization. With some it is not so “historical”.

And what does this have to do with the price of beans or this thread?

Wrong, the protests in Lafayette Park were totally peaceful.


You brought up “Western Civilization” as if people didn’t know how to act before Christianity came along.

I don’t know exactly what the president’s thinking was in doing that. But it’s pretty obvious that holding up a Bible is like holding up a cross to a vampire or throwing water on the wicked witch of the west.

The leftists are trying to destroy this country as the president tries to make it great again. And leftists are big on symbolism. So the president fired back with a little symbolism of his own. As if to say in your face!

But if it was so terrible, so awful for President Trump to hold a Bible in public, why oh why was it OK for Clinton to do it, as he did frequently?

(I just noticed the caption. President Trump never had a plagiarism scandal, so it must be that that was supposed to say President Clinton.)


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I guess I was dreaming when I saw these guys throwing Molotov cocktails over the White House fence the night before. But I know … they were giving the Secret Service something they could use to roast marshmallows.

These things start out nonviolent early in the evening, but by 10 o’clock the bad people are out the fires start burning. There was curfew; these people needed to obey it.


That is subject to dispute. Who you gonna believe Park Police or CNN? I’m suspect that we have different answers to that question so I’m ending my participation in this thread here. I stand by my original post. Have a nice day. :wave:

Actually there is plenty of direct video…

The President never “broke up peaceful protests.” The Park Police were removing people from Lafayette Park because they were VIOLATING DC’S CURFEW and that was BEFORE the President walked over to that church for the photo-op. BTW, before you claim otherwise, the PRESIDENT isn’t subject to the whims of the D.C. mayor.


“Protests are exempt from curfews because Congress (and mayors) may make no laws that abridge the right of the people peaceably to assemble and complain to the government. The government should receive the complaint with thanks, not arrest the people or beat them.”- Martin Gugino

With regards to this incident in question, I’m inclined to believe the Australian Federal Government and the two Australian journalists who were beaten by the Police while they were dispersing the crowd.

Seeing as I am a dirty filthy commie pinko foreigner, I should put a bit of context here 7Sunrise is a morning TV show much in the same vein as FOX and Friends or Good Morning Britain. They report stories about kittens in trees and celebrities marketing a new protein shake for bored housewives. They do not seek confrontational stories which very very VERY strongly suggest a peaceful protest was being conducted. Numerous witnesses including Amelia Brace’and Tim Myers confirm that the brutal crackdown began at around 6.30 - around half an hour before curfew was in effect so Pappadave is incorrect in his statements there.

Now onto the Australian Government’s response. I don’t expect anyone here to realize how serious this was, but for the Prime Minister to demand an explanation and an investigation into the incident is unprecedented. When Mohamed Noor killed Justine Diamond, there was no formal response from the federal government. When the US held Australian citizens in Guantanamo Bay, the Howard Government remained silent. In 1966, when LBJ was visiting Australia, he was greeted with protests. The NSW Premier instructed the Police to “run the bastards over”. Since World War II, DFAT policy has always been to never offend or contradict the US Administration, whoever is in charge. Also Scott Morrison himself would never be critical of the US Government unless he was on super solid ground.

This happened. An insecure little man ordered police to attack a peaceful protest so he could trespass onto a church to get his photo taken. I seriously doubt my opinion on the current state of the US in the current climate would be welcomed on this forum, but with regards to this specific incident I will say this - because of this act alone the United States is not even close to being one of the freest nations in the world. It’s disappointing as I’ve always enjoyed my time in the country and more importantly the people in it, but I suspect I am not alone in this sentiment.

So Aussie “journalists” are suddenly more authentic and believable than our own? Since when? I have a nephew living in Brisbane now and I value HIS observations more than ANY so-called “journalist”. (Oh, I apologize! Patooka would undoubtedly call me a liar since my nephew actually LIVES in the Gold Coast and only WORKS in Brisbane.) Obviously you can’t read the sign in some of the pictures that’s right behind President Trump’s back where it says “Everybody welcome!” “Everybody” BUT the President of the United States? I suspect that the Episcopal “bishop” that objected was more offended by the fact that he held up that Book with which she obviously was so unfamiliar. President Trump didn’t go INTO the Church. He stood on the front steps so he didn’t “trespass” whatsoever, even if there even was such a thing on that property.
The Park Police started moving people out of Lafayette Park when then did WITHOUT any knowledge that the President would be walking through according to their own department head. There were no “rubber bullets” deployed and no “tear gas”…at least not on THAT particular night. BTW, the D.C. curfew began at 8PM and the President’s photo-op took place around 8:35PM. And YES, protesters ARE subject to curfew just like everyone else.

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You mean the book that Trump allegedly held upside down?

It’s funny, because the political right had a collective s**t-fit when Obama saluted with a coffee cup in his hand, imagine, I mean, just try to imagine if Obama had done something like that. The religious right would have spun 10,000 conspiracy theories about how holding the bible upside-down was a blatant attempt to offend god and the church, even though I KNOW that claims that Trump held the bible upside down are 100% false. I watch the video myself.

The point is, the right would have done the EXACT SAME THING. That’s doesn’t make it ok, btw, we should, when we see blatant lies call them out, even if the side we generally agree with is the one doing it.

So not the it matters here, but I do condemn left wing sources for reporting that when it’s clearly not true. But you know what’s interesting, I can’t find a single report or Trump holding the bible upside down on CNN, MSNBC, AP, NPR, Washington Post or NTY just to name a few of the most prominent sources with a left bias.

What I find TRULY HILARIOUS is that Christianity Today DID REPORT that the President held the bible upside down.

That said, I don’t really care one way or another, but this does point to a more insidious trend which is that people imply motives to actions (and it also shows that people without motive to lie can make mistakes). Sometimes the actions are purely accidental sometimes they are not and telling the difference requires that we understand the mind of the person in question.

If Trump did hold the bible upside down, did he mean to? Of course not, he has no incentive to do so any more than I think Obama meant to disrespect the services when he saluted with a coffee cup in his hand.

It’s hypocrisy and there’s enough that all of us regardless of party can have a fell helping serving. Until there are people like me, who can admit that there is plenty of blame to go around and really want to start working on solutions, this problem is nothing but a race to the bottom and we all lose.

This photograph from 2000 is real, but it was not taken at the exact same church where U.S. President Donald Trump was photographed holding a bible in June 2020 as many have attributed to this photo. It was actually taken a few blocks away from St. John’s Episcopal Church, where the Trump photo (see below) was taken, at the Foundry United Methodist Church.

It should also be noted that the photograph of Clinton was not preceded by law enforcement forcibly clearing the area of peaceful protesters, as they did for Trump. Furthermore, the photograph of Clinton was taken after he attended a church service, while the image of Trump was not immediately preceded or followed by a church service. or worse a speech or some words from that bible as a way to reconcile differences and call for peace.

Furthermore if the article in my previous post is to be believed, even Christians feel like Trump is using the bible as a prop.

You just lost all credibility with that one. President Trump insecure? Trespassing? Is every reporter and tourist that walks where he walked also trespassing?

The Right Rev. Mariann Budde, the Episcopal bishop of Washington, should be thoroughly ashamed of herself. Rioters torched the church, the president responds by holding up the Bible in front of it, and the right reverend bishop seethes with hatred about what? The rioters? No, about the president and his Bible. Incredible! Absolutely incredible.

About the Aussies, I thought I heard that they got their requested apology. The police were obviously wrong. Did you think the president told them to shoot the media? This president has tolerated more sustained vicious harassment from the media than any president in history. He does fight back (by unleashing Kayleigh for example), but never ever anything like that.

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Thank you.

You’re making a bigger deal out of an error than it’s worth.

I’m horrified by the burning of a church. It suggests the rioters are more evil than anyone imagined. How can they demand justice and burn a historic church at the same time? What possible sense could that make?

What difference does the specific church make? The point was the apoplexy some in the media experienced for President Trump, but not for Clinton.

Should he have mingled with the “peaceful” protesters? The same group had been rioting earlier and the mood was still violent. Some would argue that it’s the job of the police and secret service to protect the president. It’s good for America to have a show of confidence by the president when hateful protesters and rioters are causing mayhem.

you smarmy little trouble making fake news purveyor.

It was to show that it is WE who own these streets.

Your fake news media was screaming, ‘Trump is a coward, he is hiding in the white house. outrageous’ they all said in unison.

He showed American courage. He walked to the CHURCH of THE PRESIDENTS to show that your radical violent allies, those whom you support, were not going to Control DC STREETS…NOT On HIS watch.

and just look at you. LOLOL NOT an original thought in your punkin’ head.

While I would not, at this point in my life, consider myself to be Christian, I did grow up around people with a Christian world view. I attended church on special occasions and even today regard churches as something special and places of historical reverence and importance. That said, the youth of almost any race rarely are in possession of an immense amount of common sense, and while I join you in condemning their actions, I hardly think for most this is about “evil” and more about angst and real and perceived issues of social equality. That said, there may be some evil-doers out there, but as Jesus said, let he that is without sin cast the first stone.

There is plenty of inequity and injustice in the world and it’s not limited to what happens to black people. It just so happens that the light is shining brightly in that direction right now. Some here would claim that this has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the state abusing their power. Others may say this is about targeted oppression.

I think there is probably some of both, the quantities of which I won’t speculate ion in this response, suffice to say, I think, as a nation, everyone is looking out of their individual interests at the cost of the interest of society and our nation more broadly.

We’re now locked into a race to the bottom which no one will “win”.

To the contrary, I said it wasn’t a big deal, though I am amused by CT reporting that Trump heald the bible upside down when the picture they posted seems to show it’s clear he did not, which tells me they expect this sort of blatant error to the point they don’t even check.

Read the rest of that comment. Clinton had attended a service, Trump posed with a bible in front of a church. If a Dem did that (or has done it) it would rightly be condemned as pandering rather than sincere belief and respect.

Here let me put this in terms some of you may be old enough to remember…

No, he should have canceled his pictures in front of the church holding his prop. Or he could have taken another route to the church in a vehicle.

It’s dishearting when those that agree with the President largely on the ideological ground don’t have the capacity to try to see this from the other side.

Imagine this was a group of second amendment supporters and the Dem President decided to plow through them to (now just insert whatever you think a Dem does to pander to their supporters).

Video shows the protestors were being peaceful and the curfew was still 30 min away. The act of clearing them out was a symbolic action for people like yourself, where the President wants to be perceived as “strong” against people you disagree with and I suspect there is a feeling of catharsis as all those hippy socialists are pushed, gassed, and otherwise “roughed up” so the President can stand with a bible.

It’s sort of like the old show Cops. When a criminal get’s his comeuppance as the cops tackle the crook on the street.