Trump Gets Thumped in Fourth GOP Debate


The key moment of the evening came when Trump was asked by the moderators to talk about the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal that the Obama administration has just finished negotiating with 11 other Pacific nations.
In his typical fashion, Trump used most of his time blasting the deal without going into specifics. It is “a horrible deal,” he insisted, that will “lead to nothing but trouble.” It is “one of the worst trade deals” and would let China “take advantage of everyone.”

Trump went on in that vein for a while before turning to the issue of currency manipulation. Sounding indignant, he raged that the 5,000-page agreement does not require China to adjust the value of its currency, thus giving it an unfair advantage against global competition. Currency manipulation is “one of the great weapons they have,” Trump complained to Wall Street Journal Editor Gerard Baker, one of the moderators.
After a couple of minutes, Trump was suddenly interrupted by the Kentucky drawl of Sen. Rand Paul, whose poor performance in the polls left him with barely enough support to qualify for the main stage.
“Hey Gerard,” Paul said to Baker. “You know, we might want to point out that China’s not part of this deal.”
“True,” said Baker, as the hall erupted with laughter and applause, “It’s true.”

I noticed that one. I thought Rand Paul was excellent in this debate. In the first debate Jindal might have been right in what he said but he was also rude and probably did not win the debate for that reason.


Yes, though I though Trump did fairly well and maintained a more reserved presence on stage, I too noticed that he did not give specifics. I thought Paul did well as did Cruz. Cruz gave another excellent statement “if the GOP embraces amnesty Clinton will win”. He is 100% correct.

This op ed piece I thought gives a great recap of last night’s debate:

The big winners (and one big loser) at Milwaukee GOP debate | Fox News


Already Newsmax has Trump winning the debate.

He did.

Out of all the wannabes on that stage, he was the only one who looked presidential.


For the first time, Paul didn’t look like a nattering yap dog. He held on to that Libertarian stance that runs in his family. And uber liberal John Kasich was clearly at the wrong gig. He should have been on the Democrat stage.

Jindal is done. Stick a fork in him. He came across as desperate. It turned a lot of people off.

What IS it about people Rush Limbaugh praises? Rush will tell his audience that a Bobby Jindal or a George Allen is the next Reagan and right away they have to jump into the fray. And they wind up crashing and burning.

Jindal should have waited a couple of political seasons before going for the presidency. Now he just looks like the angry dog in the manger that snaps at anyone who comes near.


I thought he looked like a dunce. He did not answer questions except with Trumpish soundbites and words whether they fitted the bill or not.


Well, I thought they all did pretty good, except Kasich. Rand Paul may have hurt himself more than helped himself. He had some good moments, but laughing while Rubio was speaking, was rude and childish. The clear winners were the viewers.
The Moderators of both debates were stellar.
This “winners and losers” thing is pretty lame. It isn’t a high school debating team, it’s a Presidential debate.


I take back what I said in the linked post below about you not slamming the other candidates. Trump was not the only one that looked Presidential and some are more than just wannabes.


Rubio and Rand, though they had their obvious differences, were the most clear and committed. Cruz did well too, even though he isn’t really my cup of tea, he is about as Conservative as one can be though I challenge some of his premises.

If Rand would step away from his isolationist stance he would be much stronger a candidate. His explanation of the debt is dead on though, if people keep sidestepping this issue the US is in trouble. America has more than enough military might to handle ISIS, so when people like Trump talk about being a bigger and badder military force he is confused. The U.S military is already massive, able to handle any and all threats, economic might wins the day.

Trump also showed what an economic laggard he is, a true economic/big government isolationist. Speaking about the TPP and then suggesting China would come in through the backdoor? The TPP cuts China out of the loop and Rand is right that the Chinese dislike this deal.


Here is what the prediction market is saying:

Prediction markets winner: Marco Rubio
The Florida senator made gains following the Oct. 28 debate, hosted by CNBC, with a growing lead in several prediction markets. After an adroit handling of Senator Rand Paul’s critique of his military spending plans on Tuesday, plus frequent applause lines, Rubio remains the prediction markets’ most likely candidate to win the Republican nomination.
Within one hour of the debate ending, Rubio’s odds had risen by 1 point on PredictWise (to 44 percent) and by 4 points on Pivit (also to 44 percent). In comparison, Texas Senator Ted Cruz and billionaire Donald Trump, the only other candidates to increase their odds on both markets in the same period, each remained at 20 percent or less.
Winners and Losers of the Fourth Republican Presidential Debate, by the Numbers - Bloomberg Politics


He OWNED that entire discussion, especially when it came to foreign trade. I was looking forward to any kind of debate from a BUSINESS network, because that’s the arena Trump is definitely the king. The audience could tell he knew more than anyone else on the stage, especially when he brought up the term “corporate inversion.” He took the rest of those newbies to school last night and won that debate. He made them all look small. And those “trumpish” soundbites are what got him to the top of the polls.

Fiorina was surprisingly good, if you closed your eyes and just listened to her. Again, she looks like a blonde Nazi Pelosi, but she was clearly in her element at a business debate.

Kasich and Bush as usual looked like idiots. They’re continuing to push their “politician” resume to a SILENT MAJORITY who doesn’t want to vote for a politician. Hell, why not just offer that police officer one of the beers from your ice chest when he pulls you over for a taillight?

Paul did a little better, but not good enough. Frankly, he was occupying a spot that should have gone to Christie.


Trump said nothing protectionist at all. That’s early 1990s thinking. How about that singer Michael Bolton? He’s really something, isn’t he?

Oh, by the way, Trump deals with China on a daily basis. He knows more about that country than anyone in the race. China owns the world’s largest bank and that bank is a tenant in one of Trump’s buildings. He knows more about that part of the world than anyone else running for this office.

He’ll put Carl Ichan on China and next thing you know some new manufacturing plants will be opened in America. It’s all about being competent, and right now Trump is the most competent man in the race.


He owned it all right but not in a good way. He made a fool of himself and was and is being laughed at over it.


The only one getting laughed at was Kasich. Trump won that debate. He was the only real expert in economics.


So Trump being the “landlord” for a Chinese bank makes him an “expert” on China??? That’s utter nonsense. That’s like me installing a storm cellar and claiming to be an “expert” on tornados.


So Trump being the “landlord” for a Chinese bank makes him an “expert” on China???

Pretty much gives him more credentials than any other candidates, who no doubt consider themselves China experts by ordering egg rolls from the corner chinese restaurant.

That’s utter nonsense. That’s like me installing a storm cellar and claiming to be an “expert” on tornados.

Try to grasp this concept: LARGEST BANK IN THE WORLD.

Then imagine renting it out to some newbie who just got into real estate flipping houses.

Real estate is the new 21st Century currency. Right now, Trump is the bank and everyone else is a wannabe.

So far, a gaggle of LAWYERS from both parties have given this country the worst economy in history and put is $20 TRILLION IN DEBT. Maybe someone should grow a brain and pick a candidate from a more reliable occupation than ambulance chaser.

Lawyers are yap dogs begging for political favors. And they always beg from the man who owns the building. I trust the man who owns the building. He’ll get us a better deal than anyone else.


Who got thumped?

Trump got thumped? Well, he did point out that 1) It is thousands of pages (TRUE), 2) nobody has read it (TRUE), 3) it does not address currency manipulation (TRUE), and 4) he could negotiate better deals with these countries individually (UNKNOWN but plausible). He never explicitly stated that China was part of the TPP, he just drifted into his usual stump speech on the topic just like all the rest of them on various topics.

My other impressions of the debate:

Bush and Kasich presented their positions very clearly on immigration, too bad they were in the Republican not the Democrat debate. They also used their wailing about the families and children who would suffer if we don’t bail out the too big to fail donors, err, I mean too big to fail banks when they lose their life’s savings. I guess neither one of them ever heard of the FDIC? How many financial institutions have they worked for or been on the board? Real financial wizards these guys are.

Rand Paul made his isolationism crystal clear. Good luck with that.

Carly Fiorina made a good point suggesting that we go back to zero based budgeting. Only problem is that most voters don’t know what that is. She is going to have to do better than “I can beat Hillary Clinton in a debate” to get any traction.

Cruz and Rubio both did very well. Rubio did well to steer clear of the immigration back and forth since his record stinks on that topic.

When Dr. Carson speaks, I get sleepy.

Chris Christie won the JV debate by keeping on target, the target being Hillary. Jindal made a fool of himself.


Plenty of Republicans support the Bush, Kasich and (former) Rubio positions on immigration. Plenty of us want SOMETHING TO BE DONE, which as a practical matter requires a comprehensive solution.

If you don’t support a comprehensive solution, than you don’t support any solution. You’re just flapping your gums.


And of course this is an objective opinion…


No, we want to do more that flap our gums, we want to secure our borders and enforce our laws just like every other nation on the planet.


Rand Paul is also right that US government debt is a big national security issue.