Trump going all in on Bernie-style management of the economy


#1

Trump steel tariff, trade war with China, Germany, Canada - Business Insider

This is just crazy. There’s almost no difference at this point between the far-left and the far-right when it comes to the economy. I was hoping that Trump would betray his bone-stupid base on stuff like this, but turns out that he either (1) is also bone-stupid, (2) knows better, but is so immoral that he doesn’t care about the consequences, (3) some combination of both.


#2

He’s keeping a promise :frowning: This is the one principle President Trump has been consistent about since 1979. It’s the single most important reason I refused to vote for him. Hillary Clinton was superior to Trump – not good but superior to – on this until Bernie Sanders. Then she did the Trump-Bill Clinton waffle and started saying the Republican and Democrat so-called free trade agreements she once loved were terrible. I suspect that his economic authoritarianism is rooted in economic ignorance and a belief, a core socialist value, that a central planning committee or czar can legislate prosperity. Otherwise, he would be as willing to flip flop on this as he is almost everything else. I think this and cronyism are among the few places we find the real Donald Trump.


#3

> I suspect that his economic authoritarianism is rooted in economic ignorance and a belief, a core socialist value, that a central planning committee or czar can legislate prosperity.

Yeah, and unfortunately for us, the blockhead thinks he’s the czar who should do it.


#4

Sorry, not buying the story at this time, I am seeing FAKE NEWS written all over it, see bold below!

"President Donald Trump is reportedly considering a move that would most likely ignite a major international trade conflict with some of the biggest economies in the world.

According to Jonathan Swan and Mike Allen of the news website Axios, Trump and top administration officials discussed imposing tariffs on major exporters of steel and other goods during a meeting Thursday at the White House.

The tax on imported goods could be about 20%, according to Axios, and may be expanded to goods like paper, semiconductors, aluminum, and large household appliances.

While the intent is to penalize China, a goal of Trump’s dating back to the campaign, officials informed Trump that the tariff would most likely affect other major allies of the US including Canada, Germany, Japan, Mexico, and the UK.

The p**lan is backed by what Axios described as the “America First” wing of the White House including chief strategist Steve Bannon, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, trade adviser Peter Navarro, and senior policy adviser Stephen Miller.
**

During the meeting, according to Axios, Trump was told by “over 75%” of the people in attendance that the tariffs were a bad idea but remained in support of the idea because it would excite his die-hard supporters.

Most economists agree that tariffs of the type Trump is considering would set off a major trade war and have devastating economic consequences. There is also a** good chance that the move would result in a US recession.**

SEE ALSO: Trump’s new tariff proposal could put the economy on a path to ‘global recession’"


#5

Yeah, Trump considering doing the stupid stuff he’s been telling everyone for years that he’s going to do has to be fake news.


#6

honestly I am seeing a pattern. Right before Trump gets the upper hand, he starts a tweet war with one or the other moron media person…I think he is playing rope-a-dope with them. LOLOLOLOL


#7

This isn’t a surprise. It’s not incredible. It’s honestly about as useful as reporting that the sky is blue. If it’s fake news, it’s not very good at being fake. This is exactly the kind of thing Trump has said repeatedly since he began running for office. His belief has been consistent on this since at least 1979 where he discusses the exact same idea in a televised interview – thanks to Alex Jones and infowars (which is fake news) for posting it trying to prove that Donald Trump is actually consistent.

This is Donald Trump making good on his campaign promises. I cannot imagine that Donald Trump would object to any of the “fake” things this story associates with him. He would embrace them and say, “Of course that’s what I’m going to do.” Heck, that’s what he did during his campaign. The assessments about the impact of his ideas are the likely result. They are not fake news. Those are, of course opinions, but those opinions are likely correct. And any good **capitalist **can explain why.


#8

He’s just trollin’ for the lulz? Brilliant. He’s a child. Which means he really he doesn’t want to inflict a 20-percent tariff on imports and the American people? He never suggested 45 percent?


#9

NOT ready to concur: Were any of this true it would be all over the net and the media by now, yet I have heard or seen.

I also believe that Trump is a very smart man and would be very hesitant to use tariffs unless the tables were tilted so far in favor of another country OVER the US that tariffs are the ONLY option to level the playing field.

Tariffs are a tool and a very good one when used properly, it makes others change there mind real fast and that is the goal.


#10

There has never been a use case where Tariffs have been productive. You harm your own economy by doing it, every time.

Taxes always create distortions, but if we levy a tax with the expressed purpose of denying economic activity; we are complete idiots.

“***The classic case many talk about right now are auto parts in the global value chain of U.S. automatons, specifically Mexican auto parts coming into the U.S., then going into American cars that are then exported or sold in the U.S. If we put barriers and cost on those imports of auto parts, then we make cars more expensive and less competitive here. That would be an example of where the mercantilist thinking is actually at cross-purposes with what we probably want. I think a standard, traditional economist view of trade protection is that it raises prices and limits consumer welfare, that’s a notion that goes back to Adam Smith. The new notion of global value chains adds another layer of cost and complexity to trade protection because it is essentially limiting how companies make their production choices.***”

Why Trade Can Still Thrive Under a Protectionist Like Donald Trump - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Mercantilism died for a reason. It’s best that it stays dead.


#11

Simply not true. They are the stick to the carrot! Have they been misapplied in the past, yes and that is when the Unions got involved. Might note here that Unions are about as far to the left as one can go, on par with the Nazi Storm Troopers…former AFL CIO IAM Dallas Love Field Local!!!

So your example of tariffs not working is correct, LOL. Of course your example is on par with saying that a Phillips head screwdriver does not work on a flat blade screw head. So what else is new.

Lets say we have a trade deal with Europe that they can import all the motorcycles they want so they can compete with US motorcycle sales at equitable prices. But in order for us to export a Harley Davidson to Europe the wholesale cost of HD is added to the cost in the form of a Tariff. As a result a $15,000 HD Retail, that wholesales for $10,000, now costs in Europe $10,000 + $10,000 (Tariff) = $25,000 retail. Therefore HD sells almost not motorcycles outside of the US.

Now we sit down with the fine folks from Europe and say: Folks this is not working out and there is NO level playing field. So what is good for the goose, is now good for the gander and we will play by YOUR RULES starting today!

Do you think the folks in Europe will say, yea, your right, we can reduce our Tariff on your HD’s if you don’t put a Tariff on our MC’s…YA THINK???

As for the link: LOL, just another speculative hit piece with no legit purpose other than some rambling story about a guy who wrote a book on T shirts…he hopes people will buy. FAKE NEWS!

FACT JACK: There is NO Tariff on any product that has been imposed or going to be imposed by Trump and YOU KNOW IT!


#12

Eh, he already has:


#13

I WILL stand corrected on that!

BUT you got to READ IT:

**"The step escalates an economic battle among neighboring countries that normally have one of the friendliest international relationships in the world. It follows a fight over a new Canadian milk policy that U.S. producers say violates the North American Free Trade Agreement.

“Canada has made business for our dairy farmers in Wisconsin and other border states very difficult. We will not stand for this. Watch!” Trump said in a tweet Tuesday morning.

“It has been a bad week for U.S.-Canada trade relations,” U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said in a statement Monday, adding “it became apparent that Canada intends to effectively cut off the last dairy products being exported from the United States." He said the Commerce Department “determined a need” because of unfair Canadian subsidies to the lumber industry to impose “countervailing duties of roughly one billion dollars.”
**

AND

U.S. Department of Commerce Issues Affirmative Preliminary Antidumping Duty Determination on Softwood Lumber from Canada
Jun 26 2017

Trade and InvestmentWilbur RossAntidumpingCountervailing Duty (CVD)
Posted at 5:56 PM
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, June 26, 2017
Office of Public Affairs
202-482-4883
publicaffairs@doc.gov

"Today, U.S. Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross announced the affirmative preliminary determination in the antidumping duty (AD) investigation of softwood lumber from Canada.

The Commerce Department determined that exporters from Canada have sold softwood lumber the United States at 7.72 percent to 4.59 percent less than fair value based on factual evidence provided by the interested parties. Commerce will instruct U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) to collect cash deposits from importers of softwood lumber from Canada based on these preliminary rates.

These preliminary AD rates are in addition to the preliminary countervailing duty (CVD) rates that the Commerce Department assessed on softwood lumber on April 24, 2017. When combined the applicable duty rates range from 30.88 percent to 17.41 percent.

“The United States is committed to free and fair trade, as seen today with the preliminary decision to exclude softwood lumber from the Canadian Atlantic Provinces in the ongoing antidumping and countervailing duty cases,” said Secretary Ross. “While I remain optimistic that we will be able to reach a negotiated solution on softwood lumber, until we do we will continue to vigorously apply the AD and CVD laws to stand up for American companies and their workers.”

Commerce earlier today released its preliminary determination that softwood lumber products produced in the provinces of Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island, also referred to as the Atlantic Provinces, should be excluded from the ongoing investigation.

In 2016, imports of softwood lumber from Canada were valued at an estimated $5.66 billion."

Its called LEVELING the PLAYING FIELD! Trump is playing hard ball and I am glad of it!!!


#14

Bleh. Tariffs don’t work. For example, Obama tried to save jobs with tariffs, bragged about saving 2000 jobs, and then studies found out that saving those 2000 jobs cost the economy over 4000 in other areas. It’s stupid. It’s cutting off your nose to spite the face. Trump’s an idiot. And if you think we can protectionism our way to prosperity and jobs, then you’re badly uninformed. This is just all populist posturing for the know-nothings.


#15

Trump has not yet tried to grow the economy via tariffs in spite of wrongly claiming it would work in the campaign, the Canada tariff is punishment for subsidies that Canada is giving some of their other export industries that they would not renegotiate.

Trump always punches first, then he starts talking; this tactic scares the crap out of those who are used to the U.S. beginning with capitulation then ignoring future violations from those countries who use us as a doormat.

Nobody laughs when Trump says “There will be consequences” like they did when Obama uttered those words, everyone wrings their hands wondering how massive the consequences will be when Trump says those words.

This will lead to fewer tariffs, sending the message that we will act without hesitation to trade violations is a new policy that will shake the cowards out of the trees; we have far more leverage than any of the nations we trade with.

Or, Trump could be just starting on a stupid tariff binge; the fact that I don’t know for sure means our trade partners are also asking “I wonder how far this guy will go?”


#16

Putting tariffs on Canadian lumber (and therefore hurting American businesses and consumers who want and need this product) in order to “punish” Canada for alleged unfair trade practices in other industries is immorally robbing Peter to pay Paul. This sort of top-down meddling in the economy doesn’t work. It has never worked. It’s not possible to successfully micromanage a large economy.


#17

Allowing trade partners to ignore the rules of their trade agreements harms consumers and encourages more of the same, this sort of “screw my own nation and destroy our credibility” policy from the top down never works; it is not possible to establish genuine competition and continuity in an economy where the citizens are forced to be the worlds lap dog.

And I just bought $4000.00 worth of soft lumber last month for the same price I was quoted last October, it seems Trump knew that Canadian lumber sales had a far bigger impact on the Canadian economy than on the United States lumber market.

Canada will follow the rules or Canada can find another Market, we have tens of thousands of lumber industry workers that the Extreme Left has driven onto unemployment with fake science Enviro-Nazi policies; a few swipes of the pen and we could eradicate the Canadian Lumber industry in less than a decade.


#18

Tariffs are the STICK to the carrot.

Not sure when was the last time the US entered into a trade deal and came even CLOSE to a fair playing field.

I personally hate Tariffs for all the reasons, but with not stick, its nothing but carrots and that is all we have ever had from anyone out there…

Wonder why Harley built a plant outside the US… NOT for cheap labor to bring Harley’s back to the US, but to be able to sell out there with a better advantage.

Obama and economy do not go together in any shape, form or fashion, he gave us Iran, does that tell any of you anything.

Just kinda wonder how many folks on here belly aching over the tariffs have ever done any SERIOUS dealing at the nego table and I am not talking buying kite string. Its a tuff game and not for the weak like Obama, Kerry, Kinton(s) and the rest of the left crowd that gets taken to the cleaners…


#19

It’s called economic illiteracy.

Even if one country dumps, or tariffs itself, responding in kind doesn’t help us at all.

You spoke of Europe before, but have you ever heard of a French telecom company ALCATEL?

They made mobile phones in the 1990s and early 2000s, then just tapered off despite all of the tariffs France implemented in line with their DIRIGISTE system.

This is because France’s tariffs also blocked the importation of technology (as tariffs tend to do). Innovations in smart phones were happening in America and Asia, but not in France, because they were under no pressure to keep pace.

That is until the global customers quit buying their product. It got so bad that they were eventually bought out by the Chinese company TLC, partially in 2004, then completely in 2005.


#20

Yes I have did some consulting over there in my consulting career.

You guys need to LOOK HARD at the imbalances in trade with the US and have always been there but rose to unprecedented levels under the Klintons and Obama and the other bumbling fool Kerry. America has been cheated at the nego table for decades, its time for it to end.

WE DO NOT have fair and equitable global trading, we get the very short end of the stick every time all so some POTUS and his bumbling lying fools can announce a multi billion $ trade deal, but the devil is in a details and we have been RAPED for years.

U.S. Trade Deficit by Country: Current Statistics and Issues
By Kimberly Amadeo
Updated April 11, 2017

"The United States has the world’s largest trade deficit. It’s been that way since 1975. The deficit in goods and services was $502 billion in 2016. It occurred because imports were $2.7 trillion and exports were only $2.2 trillion. (Source: “U.S. International Trade in Goods and Services,” U.S. Census Bureau.)

The U.S. trade deficit in goods, without services, was $750 billion. The United States exported $1.5 trillion in goods."

China – $579 billion traded with a $347 billion deficit.
Canada – $545 billion traded with a $11 billion deficit.
Mexico – $525 billion traded with a $63 billion deficit.
Japan – $196 billion traded with a $69 billion deficit.
Germany – $164 billion traded with a $65 billion deficit.

Some of you must be a car salesman’s dream come true