Trump, the current party and the deficit


#1

When will Republicans actually do what hey say they will and cut spending and the deficit? it’s not going to happen on the current watch. Remember when Republicans used to talk about reducing the deficit? I believe it was 2016. It seems like no one cares or even pretends to care now. What do you folks think? Is worrying about the deficit old-fashioned and irrelevant?

Here’s Larry Kudlow defending tax cuts (which are awesome) and the deficit (which is not):

“The gap is principally spending too much,” Kudlow said. “We have to be tougher on spending. People are quick to blame deficits on tax cuts, but I don’t buy that,” he said. The official added he expects the government to run deficits of 4% to 5% of the nation’s GDP, and said “it’s not a catastrophe.”

I don’t particularly blame the tax cuts, and, Mr. Kudlow, if spending is the problem, do something about it. I can’t figure out why you and yours in D.C. haven’t.

And I’m trying to wrap my head around this:

“Do not blame Trump for this. He inherited this mess,” Kudlow said.

They all say that, and I’m left to wonder who’s to blame. FDR? President Bush II and his Congress? So why bother fixing it?

It’s a fact, except for a brief period of Republican-Democrat gridlock in the 1990s netted a surplus, that anyone who goes to Washington, D.C., inherits the mess. Neither the president nor Congress have any good excuses for it.

The official added he expects the government to run deficits of 4% to 5% of the nation’s GDP,

So, deficit spending as a percentage of everyone else’s economic activity too? Don’t most of us tend to think of debt in terms of our own income? I run a surplus most of the time. I don’t count the debt of anyone else. The only one who might reasonably view things this way is someone from MMT land. As a percentage of income, the federal government is overspending its income by 24 percent.

The projected deficit in 2018, according to the CBO (other sources show larger deficits):

OUTLAYS $4.1 Trillion

REVENUES $3.3 Trillion

DEFICIT $793 Billion

DEBT HELD BY THE PUBLIC (End of Fiscal Year) $15.7 Trillion

https://www.cbo.gov/topics/budget


#2

…and yet, we keep hearing about RECORD tax revenues to the government every quarter.


#3

Record tax receipts are only an excuse to spend more money. So far as the national debt is concerned, the problem is hopeless. with the current group of Bozos in Washington. All they do is spend our money to keep themselves in office. There really is no hope because some of the worst offenders are government bureaucrats who are not elected and can’t be fired for the most part.


#4

There really is no excuse for this. We have the most firenest president in history, and he can’t manage it either. Ridiculous. And he promised to do something about it too – just like everyone else. The American people are ridiculous for continuing to elect these people. Should be may 20 people reelected in the next six years. That’s the ones who vote no on these budget bills.


#5

Trump can’t do anything about the spending without the support of the House and Senate. The Democrats won’t do anything because their only goal is block anything Trump wants. They only care about illegal immigrants, lining their own pockets and staying in office until they die. There are many swamp creature Republicans who are almost as bad.

I’ve worked in political campaigns and contributed my money to candidates, but it’s just a waste of time. When it came to office seekers, Lincoln once said he “had too many pigs and not enough tits” to feed them. Today we have too many people who want to get on the tit and as long as the government can continue to run up the national debt there will be tits to feed them. When the government succeeds in ruining the currency, the game will be up.


#6

Yup!


#7

These are not the words of someone who actually wants to do something about it. Trump won’t do anything about spending. And yes, he could. He just doesn’t want to, and he appears to have no real problem with debt.

This is the real issue. Only a handful really care about reducing spending.


#8

Read the Constitution. Nixon tried to restrict spending on his own 50 years ago with his sequester policy. It failed. If Trump tried to do that the courts would be down on him like a ton of bricks. All the presidents can do is propose budgets, which Congress immediately declares “dead on arrival” if the Democrats are in control or Republicans let die on the vine. Presidents can shift some money around, but they don’t have power to stop the spending unilaterally.

A lot of the spending has become non discretionary. Unless you going to tell the Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare and debt holders to go pound salt, there is nothing you do about that spending. There is only a small percentage, something like maybe 25% that is discretionary, and part of that really isn’t because it has to do with national defense.


#9

Hmm…like I said. No one wants to do anything about it.

The president could provide leadership. He could lead the people in his party. He could demand a balanced budget. Instead, his guys are wandering around saying that 4 to 5 percent of all national economic activity is a reasonable amount of debt. He could demand it. He could have a showdown with the drunken sailors inhabiting Congress right now. President Trump has no interest in reducing spending, no more than the Republicans or Democrats in Congress.

And nondiscretionary? Really? Some of that stuff is clearly unconstitutional from a conservative perspective, which means it should be cut completely. From the left’s perspective it’s “general welfare” stuff, which we all know is bogus. Conservatives spend years outraged at the deficit and then when they’re in control of everything, they do nothing. They make it worse.


#10

Yes, you name is well chosen. You can’t deal in political reality. The only possible way out of the budget mess is by growing the economy combined with doing something about spending. Yet you can’t get behind the Trump administration which might the last chance for a solution.

These discussions have thought me a lot about the right. One of the reasons why we can’t get anything done is because we have to fight among ourselves. In the mean time the left is united, like good Stalinists in their statist goals. They vote as a unite while we fight over trivial issues.


#11

Show me some evidence that the Trump administration or anyone else beyond a tiny handful of congressmen are doing the “something about spending” part, please. Anything. And the tariffs are anti-growth.

The left and the Dems are fighting among themselves too. Witness the Sanders-Clinton debacle.

Also, we’re not a collective. We of the weird (me) and the right (you) hopefully value discussion and debate in search of truth – justice and the American way etc. and so forth.

Also, there’s nothing wrong with “fighting.” The founding fathers fought among themselves too, and the Federalists sucked. Gotta tell ya, no one is owed my vote or my support, especially when they do exactly what I don’t want them to do.


#12

Where is the long-term debacle in the Democrat Party? Sure, the Bernie Sanders people were PO’d at the Hillary presidential nomination fix, but that’s over until maybe 2020. Now Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi pretty much have their troops lined up in a voting bloc. They vote as a bloc against anything that Trump proposes.

The only possible defections are some senators in red states who are facing re-election. If a vote for Cavanaugh helps to save their seat in a poll that will probably end in his confirmation anyway, they might vote for him. Otherwise, forget it. The Democrats vote like members of the Communist Party, in a group, no defections.

In the mean time we have Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski and the late John McCain. I’ll give Susan Collins a slight pass because she is in a dark blue state trying to hold on to a seat. The alliterative to her would probably be another New England “Independent” like Bernie Sanders or the other Maine senator, Angus King. Those two are Democrats or Socialists who for some reason call themselves “Independents.”

When you belong to political party and are looking for support on the big issues, you have swallow now and then on some other issues with which you might not agree. You have look at the big picture. How far do things have to go before your conscience tells you have to break ranks? If it is over some minor issue, or an issue that has already been determined, you need to suck it up.

Some people here remind me of Glen Beck. During the primary season he was as anti-Trump as Hillary Clinton and tried to do as much damage as he could to the Trump campaign. He was for Ted Cruz, but when Cruz said something he didn’t like late in primaries, Beck turned against Cruz as well. That’s why I don’t trust or care for Glen Beck. He’ll toss everything and go so far as to help the Democrats with his brand of intra-party strife if he doesn’t hear everything he wants to hear.


#13

Oh, you can bet that’ subject is gone in every way now. The new breed of Democrats wants to increase spending by another $4 trillion annually. Not even Republicans give a rip about it any more, which is my point.

Indeed, but It appears Republicans have swallowed everything. Where’s the backbone? Isn’t that why you guys hired Donald Trump in the first place? Where’s the Newt Gingrich and the Contract With America that forced a Democrat president into a surplus? You don’t just abandon in its entirety one of the key values of your party – well not normally.

My point again. You think the deficit and spending are minor issues. How shall Republicans differentiate themselves from Democrats in the future?

Democrat: We need to double our annual budget to give away really neat important things.
Republican: No, you can’t. But we could do $6 trillion. How’s that work for ya?
Democrat: Greedy Republicans! But we’ll take it.

Next year
Democrat: We need to double our budget to give things away.
Republican: That’s crazy. How about $8 trillion?
Democrat: You guys are so insufferably greedy, but yeah, we’ll take what we can get.

Donald Trump was supposed to stop this, I was told. Turns out he’s part of it just like 98 percent of congressional Republicans.

Kudlow: The official added he expects the government to run deficits of 4% to 5% of the nation’s GDP,

Pappadave and RET both opposed Trump in the primary and prior to the general election. One held his nose, I think, and the other voted for someone else. They both are supportive of Trump today.

A couple of us seriously do not like Trump. I don’t know what your point is, but are you trying to tell us to shut up and support Trump for the sake of the party (I quit being a Republican years ago over this same issue, among many, btw)? Are you suggesting I forsake my core ideals, you know the ones that I once thought were Republican, like fiscal responsibility? For the sake of the party and its president? So he can build a wall? Or why? I’m not getting the thing I want. I’m getting the things I don’t want. Tariffs and irresponsible budgeting.

So what is your point in this paragraph?


#14

The primary was not the main issue that I was upset with Glen Beck; it was his conduct during the presidential campaign. He and his minions ripped Trump every day. Every once and while he would say almost under his breath, “We don’t like Hillary either,” but it was like you had to pull it out of him. The net damage he did was that he was killing the enthusiasm for Republicans to vote at all, which was something akin to back door support for Hillary. That’s why I don’t trust him at all.

As for the primary, I voted for Ted Cruz. I was opposed to Trump at that time, but voting for John Kassick is like voting for a half tailed Democrat. The man has such a huge ego, that whatever good points he might have had are buried under a pile of political resentment that he didn’t get the nomination.


#15

I was skeptical of Trump as a candidate, having watched him give a $100K wedding gift to Chelsea when she married Murkowski’s kid. I knew that he’d donated to Democrat candidates in the past, too. I wasn’t paying that much attention to what he was proposing–thank you MSM. However, when he won the nomination, I fully intended to vote for him, but a scheduling problem caused by my foster son’s wife needing a new set of tires in a virtual emergency and my commitment to be at the airport by 6PM that night made me miss voting altogether. I wasn’t overly concerned because I knew he’d carry Oklahoma. I was startled to learn when I got home that night that he’d won. His actions since the election, AND the behavior of the Democrats since, have made me admire him more and more. I don’t CARE what he did 10 years ago or what he said in a supposedly private conversation with that Bush guy. He’s performed magnificently over the past nearly two years and I’ve become a BIG fan. His tariffs aren’t hurting the economy. We hit the 100th record high since he was elected just today, for Pete’s sake! They are, what we always knew they were–negotiating ploys. He’s creating a new, more US friendly NAFTA and has brought the NATO countries into compliance with their promises instead of them relying on OUR largesse. Negotiations are currently underway between the Koreas and the prospects of denuclearization have never been better.


#16

No one here except the actual liberals (and J.) supported Clinton. Some turned in favor of Trump. Some of us still oppose Trump on many levels. And we still can’t stand Clinton. It doesn’t have to be dragged out of us.

I don’t know what a “half-tailed” anything is, but that’s funny :smiley:

Show me, please. What have they done. We’re getting more this month, not too much before Christmas, then we get the other 15 percent tax increase on common consumer goods. Y’all keep telling me, but my eyes show something far different, and you never show me.


#17

Meanwhile, this is how concerned the president is about the deficit:

After congress passed an $854 million spending bill, you might think he’d be upset by the spending. Rather, he tweeted this: “I want to know, where is the money for Border Security and the WALL in this ridiculous Spending Bill, and where will it come from after the Midterms? Dems are obstructing Law Enforcement and Border Security. REPUBLICANS MUST FINALLY GET TOUGH!”

He doesn’t address Washington, D.C.'s spending problem in the least. He’s worried about spending more money! Mr. President, who is obstructing you on spending and the deficit you once campaigned on? The Washington post called your plan nonsensical (and it was) two years ago. Today, your proving it.

Donald Trump: “We’ve got to get rid of the $19 trillion in debt.”

Bob Woodward: “How long would that take?”

Trump: “I think I could do it fairly quickly, because of the fact the numbers…”

Woodward: “What’s fairly quickly?”

Trump: “Well, I would say over a period of eight years. And I’ll tell you why.”

And of course, he thinks this is why, not politicians’ spending problems:

“No, but I’m renegotiating all of our deals, Bob. The big trade deals that we’re doing so badly on. With China, $505 billion this year in trade. We’re losing with everybody.”

Meanwhile the trade deficit has grown since implementing the tariffs. Funny that.


#18

Trump can’t introduce lasting change, virtually everything he does will be swept aside by a Democrat administration, just like he swept aside Obama.

Want permanent change? The only chance we have is Article V, introducing a debt break; some sort of limitation principle on what we spend.


#19

Not exactly. RET still says he’s not sure he could vote for Trump in good conscience.

Half a**ed?..


#20

Yes, “half a$$ed, but I view this as a “family site” so I was trying to be more genteel.