Union soldier's statues!

…fine, except it’s NOT “conservatives” who are objecting to these statues. It’s the far left almost exclusively who are demanding that they be torn down–and NOT because they object to their being on “public lands” but because they are “offended” by their presence…period. The vast majority of those statues have been in place for DECADES…if not a complete century and MOST were paid for with PRIVATE money in the first place–“Sons of the Confederacy,” for one such.
The only “public” contribution has been allowing them to be placed on “public” lands–as if the “Sons of the Confederacy” or other such groups, are NOT part of the public, too. Leave them be. You don’t (nor anyone else) have a “right” NOT to be offended. If you find these statues “offensive”, don’t LOOK at them. After all, that’s what your kind said to Christians who objected to the “Piss Christ”, etc. and it’s what YOU yourself have said about abortion and marijuana use–“If you object to abortion, don’t HAVE one” or “If you don’t like marijuana, don’t USE it.”

Yes it is.

So do Libertarians.

> The vast majority of those statues have been in place for DECADES…if not a complete century and MOST were paid for with PRIVATE money

No, even most statues of the Sons of the Confederacy, and Daughters of the Confederacy, had the Federal Government pick up the bill.

Either in building them, or in maintaining them.

> as if the “Sons of the Confederacy” or other such groups, are NOT part of the public, too.

It doesn’t change what they’re doing. Unless you’re saying it’s alright to build swastikas, or plant effigies of the ISIS black flag on public property, so long as a member of the public does it, this argument isn’t honest.

It doesn’t matter what the type of the person is. You can’t force other people to pay for them. It’s that simple Dave.

> You don’t (nor anyone else) have a “right” NOT to be offended.

I already told you and Devilneck that you can build them on your own land, with your own money.

If you don’t want my voice in this, **then quit taking other people’s money. **

> After all, that’s what your kind said to Christians who objected to the “Piss Christ”

No Dave, I said the exact opposite of this:

http://www.republicanoperative.com/forums/f12/union-soldiers-statues-51645/index6.html#post777953 http://www.republicanoperative.com/forums/f12/union-soldiers-statues-51645/index6.html#post777973

They tore down piss christ, and that was the right thing to do.

Equally, the right thing to do here, would be to tear down these statues.

If someone wants to take them, and put them up elsewhere, that’s fine. It just can’t be on the public’s dime.

All of this is BS, AS–and I think even YOU know it. Swastikas and “effigies of the ISIS black flag” are NOT representative of AMERICANS…these statues ARE and are of mostly very honorable men who always WERE Americans until the day they died, who believed (rightly) that they WERE allowed to secede from the union when faced with Northern tyranny based solely on Population. Remember that it was the Northern States that objected to counting slaves as whole persons and “compromised” at the infamous “3/5ths” BS. Their SOLE reason for that was so the North could maintain legislative superiority of numbers over the South.

That doesn’t matter Dave. You just said a member of the public could do this, so I challenged that.

Clearly, even as a member of the public, you don’t have the right to set up whatever you want on public land. And you clearly don’t have the right to taxpayer subsidies to build it.

As I said before, no one owes you statues of Jefferson Davis anymore than we owe Muslims funds for building mosques. You keep trying to excuse self-entitlement, you keep trying to excuse the subsidies, and it just doesn’t add up.

It’s wrong, just as Piss Christ was wrong, just as Ethanol subsidies are wrong, just as paying for Planned Parenthood is wrong.

Nothing you say changes that.

You keep insisting that these statues were all constructed with FEDERAL tax money. Where’s your “proof” that’s the case? It only exists in your fevered imagination. Even IF tax money was spent, it was likely LOCAL tax money and NOTHING in the Constitution prohibits local taxes to be used for whatever the majority of local citizens want them used for. (Remember that pesky 10th Amendment?)

I quoted this pages ago:

and Jefferson was worried they’d become what they have NOW become. It took the left to help that along.

Lincoln also explicitly proposed and advocated abolitionist bills long before secession was an issue.

/shrug or FDR or Teddy Roosevelt or any of those other flawed men. I’m not really a fan of statues. But Jefferson is more deserving of our respect than any president if we’re going to have memorials…

Excellent post.

Just because you post something doesn’t make it the truth, AS. For example, I wouldn’t trust “The Atlantic” if they claimed that Obama won the 2008 election. I’d immediately go to another source. Putting Confederate statues on public lands doesn’t put any more onus on the 86% of Americans who are non-black than contemplating “reparations” for all black Americans, only 60% of whom have ANCESTORS who were held in slavery BY the United States.

**Quit deflecting, and quit BS’ing me. **

It’s in the ******* National Cemeteries Act of 1973 that the VA takes care of this. They have specific details of which monuments they paid for.

They do this, and they need to stop.

> I wouldn’t trust “The Atlantic”

Don’t care Dave, they have sources, they have the text of the law spelling out the authority of the VA to do this, and you just tried to BS me.

So guess who it is I trust more right now?

dude. you need to clean out your pm box.

Curious, AS . . . what’s your position on General Nathan Bedford Forrest?

Private property --> Don’t care.

Huh?

What’s “private property”?

Can you expand?

Were you not talking about the statue of him near I-65?

No . . . I was simply asking you what your take on the guy was.

A few facts that clear up some misdirection.

  1. Slavery was an economic institution, not a racist institution. Nobody in the United States was ever enslaved based on their skin tone.

  2. The opinion that slaves purchased from Africa were superior for agricultural work than slaves purchased elsewhere was common but irrelevant to the (incorrect) general belief that slave labor was economically superior to free labor. If blacks have a right to be offended by the former opinion than so does everyone else who is rendered physically inferior to blacks by the same opinon.

  3. The “moral outrage” of the Left as justification for their desire to stop publicly funding the maintenance of a few dozen memorials is laughable when the same Leftists support forcing me at gunpoint to pay for millions of illegal immigrants who are also allowed to compete with me in business without adhering to any of the laws I must obey.

  4. Memorials exist to remember events that were significant, what opinions are assigned to those memorials is irrelevant. The Civil War was the single most significant event in United States history and memorials to all of the significant characters are both appropriate and valuable to posterity.

  5. Just about everything the Left forces me to pay for is an offense, there is no “non offensive” standard for public expenditures.

  6. While slavery is indefensible and the primary reason why the South lost, it is not the reason why these monuments are under attack today. They are attacked today because the South was right about everything else, it is those recorded sentiments that the Left want buried because censorship is the only refuge for those without a legitimate argument.

  7. The Left are liars, there is no integrity in lies and no profit in deception and misdirection.

3 Likes

  1. Slavery was practised throughout the world since the dawn of recorded history until the 19th and 20th centuries. It was not the invention of evil white American colonists.

The faux outrage over America’s historical links to slavery are only to ultimately de legitimize our founding fathers and the wonderful system of self-government that they brought to the world.

4 Likes

Touche!

Uh, yes it was, go back and read the quote from Alexander Stephens, his “Cornerstone Speech”.

They purported racial superiority, and that subjugating “inferior races” like blacks, was apart of the God-anointed order. Their words. No one made them say it.

Good thing I’m not a leftist B). I say end the welfare. I have no problem ending welfare tomorrow.

Sure, a plaque with names attached of those who lost their lives; not statues of individuals who commemorate the Ideology that needs to die.

There’s no seperating a statue of Jefferson Davis, from the racial ideology the South stood for. He vocally supported it. He wrote time & again how creating a society based on racial exploitation was “superior” to the model implied in the Constitution.

That the Founders were wrong, that giving people equal rights can never work. He said these things.

If you misdirect about who you’re arguing with, does that make you a leftist RET?

Straw manning is an argumentative fallacy, I think you know that. It simply cries desperation.