US Constitution

Here’s the link

It wasn’t exactly what I had in mind, but it’ll do; thanks, TO. This will be a lot handier than digging through my encyclopedia for the U.S. Constitution, or running to the refrigerator where we have the Bill of Rights magneted.

Did you want them pasted here? I guess that would be better…I’ve just become so paranoid about duplicate content…(it’s a web developer thing).

[quote=“TheOperative, post:3, topic:7034”]
Did you want them pasted here? I guess that would be better…I’ve just become so paranoid about duplicate content…(it’s a web developer thing).
[/quote]No, I was just thinking about a button or something in the “Reply to Thread” page where you could access the link instead of opening a second RO window to access it in this thread; no big deal. I shouldn’t be too lazy to move my hand a little more and click and extra time or two!

Here are some links I have found useful…

Founding Documents

The Federalsit Papers

The Federalist Papers from PatriotPost

The Constitution & Religion

National Constitution Center

The Library of Congress

I’m sure the Federalist Papers will be of great help when we encounter libs who try to tell us what the founding fathers really meant . . .

I bought the paperback edition of the Federal Papers. It’s a good read but a tough one if you aren’t used to their style. I kept having to re read every other line, lol.

Today, 9/17, begins Constitution Week.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim September 17, 2008, as Constitution Day and Citizenship Day, and September 17 through September 23, 2008, as Constitution Week. I encourage Federal, State, and local officials, as well as leaders of civic, social, and educational organizations, to conduct ceremonies and programs that celebrate our Constitution and reaffirm our rights and responsibilities as citizens of this great Nation.

White House

I recommend bookmarking the Founders’ Constitution.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this seventeenth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand eight, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-third.


Can anyone explain what the Independence of the US the 233rd means?

We are in the 233rd year of our independence from Great Britain. 1776 + 233 = 2009. On July 4, 2009, we will be celebrating 233 years of independence.

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I had already answered my own question when I did the math. I came up with 1776 minus 233 to equal…of course…2009. I just wasn’t sure why I came up with 2009. Thanks Susanna:smile:

oops, darn typo. I meant added…dah me:redface:

I had to edit mine twice before I got the equation right. :tongue:

Smich was just over and she commented not reading this tread yet and wasn’t sure of the 233 but I had done the math. I get rushed sometimes…mind working overtime…hence the mistakes. I am just glad I caught it before someone commented on my math:banana:

I admire you Susanna. I have read many posts you have made and threads. If nothing else, you will be one of a few people that I will pay attention to in this forum. You are so knowledgeble in so many ways it amazes and facinates me. When Bush commented in his letter “Lord” it was touching to me because God is my Lord.

The lefties are trying to change the time designations from “BC” (Before Christ) to “BCE” (before current era) and “AD” (Anno Domini - the year of our Lord) to “CE” (current era). This is getting to be common usage. But what is the dividing line - still? It is the birth of Christ.

I read something several years ago where some lefty thought “AD” meant “After Death.” It didn’t specifically say she thought that - she was quoted actually using the expression.

[quote=Susanna;135566]The lefties are trying to change the time designations from “BC” (Before Christ) to “BCE” (before current era) and “AD” (Anno Domini - the year of our Lord) to “CE” (current era). This is getting to be common usage. But what is the dividing line - still? It is the birth of Christ.

It will never happen…changing times. The dividing line is the birth of Christ. I am glad we agree on that.


I think it is safer to say that the Federalist Papers can be used to gain insights into what some of the founding fathers meant - but certainly not all of them. The target audience was the New York constituency, presenting arguments endorsing the ratification of the Constitution.

It is common knowledge that Hamilton was the principal author of the Federalist Papers, but other leading Federalists included:

James Madison (principle author of the Constitution, Virginia legislator, Continental Congress, Representative for Virginia, Secretary of State, 4th POTUS)
John Jay (lawyer, Continental Congress, New York state legislator, Chief Justice New York Supreme Court, Governor of New York, Chief Justice of the SCOTUS)
John Marshall (Representative from Virginia in Congress, Secretary of State, Chief Justice SCOTUS)
James Wilson (lawyer, Signatory to the Declaration of Independence, Continental Congress, Justice SCOTUS)
John Dickinson (lawyer, Militia officer, Continental Congress)
Roger Sherman (lawyer, Mayor, Committee of 5 [drafted the Declaration of Independence], Representative and Senator from Connecticut)
George Washington (Commander in Chief - Continental Army, Presider of the Constitutional Convention, 1st POTUS)
Benjamin Franklin (Statesman)

These gentlemen eloquently urged the ratification of the Constitution and generally advocated a strong federal government, a national bank and a standing army (strong military).

However, there were other founders who were either opposed to these ideas, or sought modification of the Constitution as written. Jefferson was the primary leader of the Anti-Federalist and wanted a Bill of Rights. He disdained the idea of a central bank (he knew his history well), was weary of too much power being vested in an executive and deeply questioned the motives of Alexander Hamilton. As the Federalists influence and organization grew, they eventually formed one the two dominant politcal parties of the day, appropriately named - the Federalist party.

James Madison, is worthy of some extra attention, as his positions are evidence that flip-flopping is hardly a new innovation in politics. Madison, was initially an ally of Hamilton, assisting in the writing of the Federalist papers. However, around 1793 or so, he began to harbor views more in line with Thomas Jefferson, opposing a strong central government and especially a central bank. When the War of 1812 occurred, Madison again changed his position, as he had witnessed events during the war’s campaign that compelled him to believe a stronger central government and defense were necessary. Additionally he threw his support toward the central bank as well (so much the easier for funding these policies). [Patric Henry would also come to shift his views in favor of Federalism.]

Notable Anti-Federalist:
George Clinton (Continental Congress, Brigadier General under Washington, Vice President under Jefferson and Madison)
Robert Yates (Constitutional Convention - left early, felt the scope of work being proposed was creeping out of bounds - they were to fix to Articles of Confederation)
Samuel Bryan (Father was on the Pennsylvania Supreme Court and an outspoken Anti-Federalist)
Melancton Smith (Continental Congress)
Richard Henry Lee (Lawyer, Continental Congress, 6th President under the Articles of Confederation, Senator from Virginia)
Patrick Henry (Lawyer, Virginia Politician, Revolutionary Militia Leader, Anti-Federalist who later became a Federalist).

The Anti-Federalist were not as well organized nor entrenched as the Federalist, but posed significant opposition to the Federalists which delayed ratification and culminated in the foundation of the Republican Party (later renamed the Democratic-Republicans). The Anti-Federalist were the principle protagonists for the Bill of Rights and were deeply concerned about eroding the several states sovereignty, were ardently opposed to the “necessary and proper clause” of the proposed constitution, and were opposed to standing armies in time of peace, among other things.

There were, more or less, 55 Founding Fathers, and they came from varied lots. The greater balance of them were well educated and experienced in the arena of politics. Most were gentrified, but a small number of them came from more humble roots, as there were among them two small farmers, a number of merchants, as well as 3 physicians, a college dean, plantation owners, scientists and financial speculators. Religiously they varied as well, although the great majority were protestants of varying sects, there were 3 Catholics and a few who clung to no particular affiliation. There was a small contingent of Free Masons among them as well which included George Washington, James Madison and Benjamin Franklin, as well as others. Some of the delegates were vocal opponents of organized religion, most notably Thomas Jefferson whom is belieived to have been a Deist, as was Franklin and Ethan Allen. It is also known that Jefferson, Washington, Adams and Franklin all at some time or another corresponded on their disapproval of organized religion, yet they all recognized the usefulness of religion in helping to foster a morality among the people. Roughly half of these gentlemen were formally trained at colleges, although Franklin had been apprenticed and self taught. Most were natives of the 13 colonies, but few came from other countries, such as Ireland, England, and others.

The point is that there were many views, ideas and theories and theologies present among the founders, and to claim that the Federalist Papers give one insight into what the founders were thinking when the Constitution was drafted is not entirely accurate, nor completely false. It does indeed provide useful insights into political thought of the day - but not the only political thoughts.

George Washington:
During the administration of President George Washington, Alexander Hamilton was the first Secretary of the Treasury. Hamilton and several of his friends and associates formed the Federalist Party to promote their political ideas. Federalists believed in a strong national government. They said that the Constitution was a “loose” document that did not define all of the powers that the federal government should have. The government had the right to adopt additional powers to fulfill its duties under the Constitution.
John Adams was the only Federalist President. George Washington never joined a political party, but his decisions while president usually favored the Federalist Party. (taken by the Ohio History Central.)

Yes, you are correct. While Washington was not a member of the party, I included him because, as you pointed out, he did administer in way that tended to reflect Federalist thought and policy objectives. I should have denoted this.

Franklin also was not a party member, but he spoke out in favor of Federalists ideas and designs and urged adoption/ratification of the Constitution, thus I included him.

I was just doing some homework. Thanks for the thread. It’s very interesting.