US homeland security funding deadline looms


#40

The House tried to pass a three week extension to fund the DHS and it failed. Democrats and 52 Republicans voted against it. Now they are trying to pass a one week extension. The Senate already passed a one week extension.


#41

Political theater is awful these days. The soft bigotry of low expectations is not applicable to the US Congress. Expectations should be low. The US House would not agree with the US Senate to fund DHS for the rest of the fiscal year or for three weeks but it did agree to fund DHS for one week — until Mar 6.

Roll Call Vote 106

cf. U.S. House of Representatives Roll Call Votes
U.S. Senate: Roll Call Votes 114th Congress - 1st Session (2015)


#42

False. The president wasn’t even on the table when we started talking. The issue was immigration, and you brought up the President midstream, and then tried to make him the center of the issue, because you aren’t ready to have the full discussion. About what is really driving this issue.

In any event, the President didn’t create the problem, he’s simply taken advantage of it. An advantage we gave him and his party. There’s only one way to take it back from the both of them. Canada has already outlined how.

You are constantly deflecting. If the immigration system needs fixing it isn’t going to happen until the border is secured; you can bank on that.

Except you cannot secure the border without fixing the immigration system. Full stop.

The border is insecure, because the immigration system is broken. Cause & effect. Aggregate immigration is determined by domestic demand for labor, and if it cannot get it legitimately, it will get it illicitly. Meaning, you will not get your desired outcome, until you address the cause of labor demand.

Government does not have absolute control, there are natural boundaries to its power, and this is one of them. It is only able to secure a border if isn’t fighting the nation’s own economy in the process. And that’s exactly what you want it to do.

If you aren’t trying to address the cause, then you aren’t trying to fix the problem. You’re just treating symptoms. Enforcement has already been tried. Amnesty has already been tried. Each failed for the same reason: not treating the cause.

It’s high time we did so.


#43

Nonsense, of course. All those 60,000 plus children who came across the border last year weren’t coming here to “find jobs” or “fill jobs Americans won’t do.” They were coming here for the FREEBIES they’d been told they’d get from our government bureaucrats…or that their parents were told about. I’ll never understand how you can keep beating this drum as millions pour across our border, yet unemployment remains high…and don’t buy for a second the figures the government puts out. We have 90 million plus, able-bodied Americans out of work today so there’s no lack of labor here.


#44

They were coming to be with their family members already living here in the U.S. They’d have no freebies if we simply let them.

they’d been told they’d get from our government bureaucrats…or that their parents were told about. I’ll never understand how you can keep beating this drum as millions pour across our border, yet unemployment remains high…

False dilemma. Dave? Immigration does not contribute to unemployment. Fact.

Economists are very clear on this point. Even Thomas Sowell, who does not want the immigration, does not try to say this. He knows better, and so should you.

That is, unless you’re going to tell me here and now that you are indeed a Keynesian. Are you?

and don’t buy for a second the figures the government puts out. We have 90 million plus, able-bodied Americans out of work today so there’s no lack of labor here.

Farmers who hire them disagree, and farmers know their own trade better than you do. I’ll ask you to quit pretending otherwise.


#45

I’m not saying that illegal immigration CAUSES unemployment. I’m saying that your claim that illegals coming here in response to a need for labor doesn’t SOLVE it…and that’s demonstrably so. There aren’t 20 million farm workers in the whole country–but there ARE 20 million illegals here…or as close as makes no difference. Again, I give you the case of the 36 illegals ICE discovered in that Iowa meat-packing plant. Within a week, that company had over 1000 applicants from American citizens or LEGAL immigrants for those 36 jobs, so your meme that illegals “fill jobs Americans won’t do” is ALSO demonstrably false.

Also, a fairly large percentage of those 60,000 kids didn’t HAVE “relatives already here” and became wards of the State or were placed in the homes of people who CLAIMED to be relatives, but actually weren’t.


Protesters Remove U.S. Flag, Replace It With Mexican Flag Outside ICE Facility
#46

Yeah, I remember about a chicken packaging plant (or something like that, one of those “smelly” jobs that no America will take) that was closed down because most - if not all - of their employees were illegal aliens - and came back up almost immediately with an all-citizen work force.


#47

I worked for a construction company that went out of business because of illegals. Some sectors have high unemployment numbers, while a lot of the jobs they could do are being done by people that can barely speak English.

If a specific industry can’t find enough people they need, then why can’t they apply for people to come here on work permits like in some agricultural businesses? I know our immigration system is a mess and needs fixed, but it’s multi pronged, and needs to be dealt with in stages. Like our visa system. Immigration doesn’t even know where 40% of foreigners are that have expired visas.


#48

Wow, a one-week funding bill that was passed at the last minute.

Way to go new GOP Congress! Your job approval is 13%, but let’s see if we can get that to single-digits!


#49

Won’t solve it, but it certainly helps it. It’s helps get labor to where it’s most needed, and get businesses back to wealth creation.

As an economist put it, immigrants are the oil helping to lubricate the gears of the economy. And oh yes, he meant illegals, favoriting them the same way Milton Friedman did.

…and that’s demonstrably so. There aren’t 20 million farm workers

Dave, the same principle applies to the hotel manager, the restaurant owner, the it company, or what have you. They all understand their own needs best. If they’re hiring the illegals, it’s because they need them, and we have the precedent to show that nothing good comes from depriving them of that supply.

in the whole country–but there ARE 20 million illegals here…or as close as makes no difference. Again, I give you the case of the 36 illegals ICE discovered in that Iowa meat-packing plant. Within a week, that company had over 1000 applicants from American citizens or LEGAL immigrants for those 36 jobs, so your meme that illegals “fill jobs Americans won’t do” is ALSO demonstrably false.

  1. One case does not make a trend. And this case didn’t work out quite as you’re implying anyway.

  2. You’re missing part of the story. Like the broken window fallacy, you’re paying attention to what you can see, what you’re not seeing is what the company was using its money for. An expansion to its enterprise, an updating to its equipment, buying out a competitor, etc… By raising the cost of labor, you’ve now destroyed wealth, and shrunk the company’s options. You’ve ensured it will grow less, and have less better paying positions down the line… If the company itself is even still around, which leads me to:

  3. You don’t know if the company even filled those positions back. But guess what Dave? I do. The Postville plant, wasn’t it? The plant due to costs of the raid was forced into bankruptcy. It was bought out, and eventually put to work again, at a fraction of the capacity it had been operating at before.

Which means, wealth was destroyed, and so were jobs. Nice to know the Government hasn’t lost its touch.

Also, a fairly large percentage of those 60,000 kids didn’t HAVE “relatives already here”

Of course "mum"s the word on what percentage that is, and the fact that if their relatives are here illegally themselves, they can’t ask for them.

were placed in the homes of people who CLAIMED to be relatives, but actually weren’t.

Because of aforementioned status of the real ones. But this doesn’t matter at any rate.


#50

Temporary visas for non-agricultural worker are subject to quotas. Off hand I believe it’s around 20,000 a “season”, which is pitifully few, and they fill almost as quickly as the H1B.

Add to that the system is slow, requires (expensive) legal know-how, and that you can’t be sure to get that Visa extended when you need it to…

Oh, and agricultural workers? Despite their visas being unlimited in number, as much as 70% of those workers are illegal.

I know our immigration system is a mess and needs fixed, but it’s multi pronged, and needs to be dealt with in stages.

In the meantime, businesses need to work, and can’t simply wait for the Government to clean up its act. So they either work outside the system, or abuse it to get it to fit their needs, like the dairy farmer in Montana who kept his “temporary” workers year round.


#51

Yes, our immigration system is a mess and out of date. Just like these foreigners who come here to go to college. They can apply for college and get several acceptance letters to come here. Of course they can only use one, so what happens to the others they get? This was an issue that was brought up during the 911 hearings. Once these so called students get here, they are not followed. They can just get off the plane and who knows what happens to them or if they even showed up at the college. Many of these consulates are still using paper files. I don’t know if they even got a computerized system that can track them in a timely manner. They didn’t have that in 2002. That’s just a fraction of the problems we have.


#52

Gee, I can’t even imagine how making the legal immigration process MORE DIFFICULT (and it already tears apart families, it’s torn apart MINE and I’ve been a US citizen all my life and we’ve only been trying to do things right!) will make illegal immigration soooo much better!

I’m honestly starting to think the process will be easier to pack my bags and go for permanent residence in her country because apparently their immigration process is much quicker and less stupid filled. It will mean my kids won’t really get to know their other family on my side AND her side… but at least I’ll be with my wife and child.


#53

Yeah, doesn’t make sense, but I’ve seen it happen, time and time again.


#54

[quote=“Pappadave, post:43, topic:46110”]
They were coming here for the FREEBIES they’d been told they’d get from our government bureaucrats…or that their parents were told about.
[/quote] What the FLIP are you babbling about? Part of the paperwork for legal immigration is you have to prove as the petitioner that you make at minimum 125% ABOVE the poverty level. The flat out stated reason for this is because the government does NOT want the legal immigrant to be put on the government welfare system. I remember reading somewhere in the paperwork that if you drop below that there is a clause in there somewhere that they could start deportation proceedings based on your paycheck as the petitioner. They also want a solid history of your income and you’re expected to submit proof of 3 years of tax returns for yourself as the petitioner. If you don’t make the 125%, you can get around it with a family cosponsor that has to be above that 125% and submits their own 3 years worth of tax returns with a promise to support you all. So again, I really have to ask, what damn freebies do you think we are getting? "Cause I sure don’t see any freebies in our horizon. And you think people here illegally are going to be getting freebies? lol… right, maybe some food as they are holed up in a deportation center to be sent away from their families. Hell of a freebie that is.


#55

[quote=“Maylar, post:54, topic:46110”]
What the FLIP are you babbling about? Part of the paperwork for legal immigration is you have to prove as the petitioner that you make at minimum 125% ABOVE the poverty level. The flat out stated reason for this is because the government does NOT want the legal immigrant to be put on the government welfare system. I remember reading somewhere in the paperwork that if you drop below that there is a clause in there somewhere that they could start deportation proceedings based on your paycheck as the petitioner. They also want a solid history of your income and you’re expected to submit proof of 3 years of tax returns for yourself as the petitioner. If you don’t make the 125%, you can get around it with a family cosponsor that has to be above that 125% and submits their own 3 years worth of tax returns with a promise to support you all. So again, I really have to ask, what damn freebies do you think we are getting? "Cause I sure don’t see any freebies in our horizon. And you think people here illegally are going to be getting freebies? lol… right, maybe some food as they are holed up in a deportation center to be sent away from their families. Hell of a freebie that is.
[/quote] Where did I say anything about LEGAL immigration? I’m talking about why most ILLEGAL “immigrants” come here. I have no problem whatsoever with LEGAL immigrants. What I object to are those who sneak into the country in hopes of getting on the Democrats’ gravy train.


#56

You keep taking about “IMMIGRANTS” while I’m talking about ILLEGAL INVADERS. The two aren’t comparable. I have no problem with legal immigrants.


#57

And I mentioned the deportation center.

Would you support reforming the legal immigration system so that it’s not a nightmare fueled mess of slow suck? Because I’m getting pretty damned tired of being separated from my wife and son who aren’t allowed in this country right now even though we’ve been doing everything we can to follow the rules.

And again, what FREEBIES do you think illegal immigrants are getting?


#58

Yeah, legal immigration processes need to be reformed. Seems like every time there is a serious problem with illegal immigration, they “tighten things up” by making legal immigration even more difficult. Just like taking the guns away from law-abiding citizens because too many criminals have guns. Things need to be made tougher for the illegals, and easier for the legal immigrants.


#59

[quote=“Susanna, post:58, topic:46110”]
Things need to be made tougher for the illegals, and easier for the legal immigrants.
[/quote]If the justice system was honest obama’s illegal actions would be made right by the Supreme Court and the DOJ. The borders would be closed and illegals would be sent home. What will happen is the government will make it even harder for those trying to get in legally and give all kinds of goodies to illegals.

Illegals are getting free medical care as well as welfare and social security none of it they paid into . We need to stop anchor babies in which I read many who have crossed the border illegally are counting on to gain citizenship.