Not every State issues a “voter ID number”. In fact, few do. My State, for example, does not. It issues a Registration card in MY NAME AND ADDRESS and specifies what precinct I am entitled to vote in and where that polling place is located.
The blue States are proposing sending out a ballot to everyone registered in that State, or, in the case of New Jersey, everyone in the State with a mailing address–registered or not. Recently, one apartment manager found 110 ballots mailed to the same apartment in his building–none of which were addressed to anyone who’d ever lived in that apartment. If that guy had been crooked, he could have filled out each of those ballots and mailed them in, giving him 111 votes in the 2020 election!
Once again we have a case of Republicans understanding that fraud is rampant in voting, but missing the mark by a mile and imagining it’s millions of individual voters only in one party syncing up to cast multiple votes, and not the handful of people in charge of counting the ballots manipulating/fabricating the results.
Evidence that this is widespread? Or do you just have a few examples over the years?
And that’s not to be dismissive, I think everything should be done to ensure the elections are free and fair beyond reproach and I admit we’ve not achieved that goal, that said, I think Republicans pay lip service to that idea, but I don’t believe they practice what they preach.
The opportunity is there, and no one even attempts to check for it. We’ve had plenty of congressional testimony of people flat out saying it’s rampant in South America using similar voting systems. I have always, btw maintained that it’s likely not particularly partisan, though probably benefits one party more than another in particular states/districts.
Because it isn’t checked, I can’t know how rampant it is. But this is about like always leaving an unlocked safe in a restaurant overnight. If it’s known by the entire staff, you’re going to have cash taken. It may be one person, it may fifteen people, but it’s going to happen.
And the integrity systems are deliberately designed to mask manipulation. You can’t tell me these print out systems are so stupidly designed based on nothing but incompetence.
It’s easy to build this system. Every voter is given a random UID at the polling station. Their vote has the UID embedded in it. They can submit their UID, along with the vote that was cast with it for audit. You could then independently verify that a sample of votes cast, were counted correctly.
Instead, we have a worthless ticket printout that just mirrors whatever was on the screen. But I can easily just internally count differently than I print out. You have to be able to recount the vote total, and verify individual votes within the total afterwards. Literally no voting machine in America operates this way. Why would it not? Because the people funding it(politicians) want a system that allows for fraud. Why would they design a system that makes it possible, and then not utilize it?
I don’t know that if that’s true, but I will concede that you’re probably right in that voting isn’t as secure as it should be, and what “should” looks like is a system that has no equal in the world and is beyond reproach. Honestly I’m more concerned about sophisticated state actors than I am some radical delivering votes to an election office and throwing them over a bridge because they think it will benefit their party.
That said it is a legitimate concern, if not slightly mis-prioritized.
Yes, I would agree here too. I think both parties enjoy this fact. They can pay lip service to how much election security means out of one side of their mouths while knowingly or at least having plausible deniability about things they know are probably happening.
Having said that, I don’t think that in the past, we’ve had a problem with widespread voter manipulation and fraud, but I think in recent years to come it will be if the system isn’t secured.
Not sure if it’s the same, but in VA and NC you can log in and see that your vote was cast. There is probably other information there, like when and how, but I’ve never used the system (though I will this year).
In the end, I agree that our system of voting is flawed and it’s value is grounded in the trust people have in it. This means that it really doesn’t matter if people are cheating or not if people don’t trust it, but, I will add this one last part.
If we’re really going to tackle the problem, we need to rethink gerrymandering and better and come up with an identification system that is easy to access and have voting holidays or laws that ensure that people can leave their jobs to vote.
There are people in this forum that believe that voting is a privilege. Now for myself, it really makes no difference to me if you want to call it a right or a privilege as long as a person’s ability to access that privilege isn’t leveraged as a way for one party or the other to discourage/ prevent people from voting for no other reason to acquire a political advantage.
Voting is NEITHER a “right” or a “privilege.” It’s a DUTY…a duty that a LOT of people shirk for a variety of reasons–not the least of which is lack of confidence in the system. If Mrs. Hussein can go to multiple precincts and cast a dozen votes for her favorite candidates without being questioned about it, the system isn’t secure. If Joe Blow can volunteer to monitor ballots and “discovers” a whole box of uncounted ballots the day after the election in the trunk of his car, 90% of which happen to be for his favorite candidate, the system isn’t secure. If Sam the postman, an avid Democrat unionist, picks up hundreds of mail-in ballots from a neighborhood he knows to be predominately Republican and dumps them into the nearest Dumpster instead of taking them to the post office, the system isn’t secure. If the electronic voting machines are being programmed and “serviced” in Clark County, Nevada, by SEIU under “contract” and SEIU is well-known to be a virulent left-wing organization, the system probably isn’t secure there either. If Kalifornia’s “ballot harvesting” system allows Democrat Party activists to gather ballots and take them to the county election boards to be counted, the system almost certainly isn’t secure.
One thing for sure, if the Democrats commit voter fraud, the main stream news media will not report it. In fact they will cover it up. I see the bias night after night on ABC News. They don’t even pay lip service to objective reporting.
Their latest favorite story is the claim that Trump called war dead “losers and suckers.” The story comes from “anonymous sources” published in a liberal magazine owned by a Biden supporter. Twenty people, who were on the trip, including John Bolton, who is no fan of Trump, have said this is not true, yet ABC News drives the story home over and over again. This is their tactic. If you keep repeating the same crap over and over, some people are going to believe it.
The main stream news media is a disgrace. They don’t have any credibility, and nothing they say can trusted unless you verify it from other sources.
So the Democrat claim that there is not voter fraud can’t be trusted if it’s the news media that is supporting it. Stories have surfaced of postal workers manipulating ballots. Given the fact the vote will be close, and the Democrats are looking for ways to get as many ballots out as possible, this should be a major concern. But for people like @csbrown28, it isn’t. Like many activist Democrats, he just wants win in any way that he can.
Fox News reported this morning that 1,000 people voted twice in the Georgia primary. The figures show that 58% of them were Democrats so to be fair, some of our people broke the law too. Still this should not happen. It shows that the issue can’t be ignored.
I will repeat this point. If you apply for a ballot and get it, that is good. If you are sent a ballot unsolicited, that is wrong, especially when the voter address roles have been fixed to reflect people who have passed on or moved.
I fear for the worst this November. The mere fact that the Democrats are sure that they will flip the result of the presidential election with main-in votes after the numbers are tabulated on Election Eve shows that something is a foot.
President Trump did NO SUCH THING, CSB! Try and get at least ONE claim right. President Trump said if you receive an unsolicited ballot in the mail, mark it and send it in, you should also go to the poll and request a ballot. If the system works like the dim-wits are SAYING it will, you’ll be denied a ballot because the records will show that you’ve already voted. If they GIVE you a ballot, go ahead and vote because it means that your mail-in ballot was never received or tabulated.
@TrumpTrain2 I would love to sic you on a truly evil communist Democrat on another site. He makes @csbrown28 look like a patriot. He hates this country so much that he has made the accusation that America is “an imperialist state which has spent 90% of its history at war conquering other nations.” When you mention Trump’s to him, he acts like a dog with rabies frothing at the mouth.
Rush Limbaugh has said that people like this exist. This was the first one I have even come in contact with on the Internet.
Not surprisingly, he has admitted that at least part of his family works at a university.
Perhaps he said what you’re claiming at another time, not sure (if I had to bet, it’s how his aids are spinning what he actually said), but on more than one occasion, that’s not what he said.
This is literally a transcript of what he said (see the part in bold).
“They had some interesting polls. I don’t know, do I like it or don’t I like it, I guess I probably do, but they say no matter what it is, there are more votes for Trump because a lot of people say, “Just leave me alone, I’m going to vote the way I want to vote.” And then they go and they vote for Trump. On your ballots, if you get the unsolicited ballots, send it in and then go make sure it counted, and if it doesn’t tabulate, you vote. You just vote. And then if they tabulate it very late, which they shouldn’t be doing, they’ll see you voted so it won’t count. So send it in early and then go and vote and if it’s not tabulated, you vote and the vote is going to count. You can’t let them take your vote away. These people are playing dirty politics, dirty politics.”
Here is is again, on a separate occasion where he says, and I quote, “…let them send it in [the mail in ballot] let them go vote and if the system is as good as they say it is then obviously they won’t be able to vote…”
It is a recipe for Fraud for the very same reasons that Jimmy Carter said it was during his administration…for the very same reasons that Jerry Nadler said it in the past as well as OTHERS…>BECAUSE it is a recipe for FRAUD.
Now explain to me why democrats are MORE THAN FINE with it now.
I’m far less concerned about compromising the presidential election and more about smaller races. At a national level it’s hard to coordinate all of this. Maybe you could steal one state, but it would be a huge task to get people in place across half of the country. But in a State Legislative district? You might need literally one corrupt official to tip the results. I think it happens in primaries even more than in the general.
Literally all they keep doing is talking about how someone might take a neighbor’s ballot and use it to vote twice. This is not how the election will be stolen. It will be the person counting the votes. In 20 years of hearing Republicans bleat about voting fraud, it has always been about individual people voting 2+ times, or Mexicans going to the polls without a voter ID. It is never about the people counting the votes.