Walmart is not evil.


#61

I think gun stores have gone out of business more in response to the Bill of Wrongs than to Walmart. We had a couple go out of business, I think, in one community here, but not the one where Walmart is located. One went out of business simply because the owner retired, and the Bill of Wrongs, I believe, promoted such stringent rules that it makes it impossible for a small business - especially for a gunshop - to make a start & survive. KMart also carries guns, and as I mentioned before, they’re just a couple of blocks away from Walmart.

And you claim that many businesses don’t get the same privileges as Walmart? How many of them did you look up all the details on? None, I bet. You just looked up Walmart.

I know it’s common practice for communities to give tax breaks to entice businesses to their area.


#62

I know in our home town, they went out of business because their prices were undercut. Again, at the time, Wal-Mart did sell handguns and rifles. The three stores went out of business. Evidence that Wal-Mart was the cause is the fact that when Wal-Mart stopped carrying handguns, and decreased their selection of rifles, a new store opened. Had nothing to do with regulations. The first stores were run out of business when I was in high school, some 15 years ago. About 9 years ago, they stopped selling handguns. About three years after they stopped carrying handguns, reduced their archery supplies and ammo selection, a new hunting store opened in town.

This same situation can be found all across America where wal-mart has gone into business.


#63

I will add this article by the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think-tank that also condemns Wal-Mart for some of their actions.

Wal-Mart’s Perverse Strategy on the Minimum Wage

To the OT, yes, it is possible for a conservative to dislike Wal-Mart. More than one conservative, as a matter of fact.

The free market works to the advantage of the typical citizen and suffers relentless assault from special interests that profit from its disfiguration. Big labor favors taxpayer-guaranteed benefits, curtailed competition, and protection from cheap labor (at home and abroad), while the strategy of many big businesses is to lobby for corporate welfare, tax breaks, and ways to stifle competition. Small businesses are forced to play the market purely and without any favors, lacking the power to lobby politicians. Until its latest move, Wal-Mart was more of a pure player, making profits by innovating in the marketplace.

Just found this article, but it echos what I posted pretty well. This article stemmed from Wal-Mart’s push to increase the minimum wage, which was more than a superficial claim.


#64

You’re still just talking about Walmart. You haven’t proved a thing. And I just told you where it didn’t happen.


#65

I don’t think “eminent domain” is the correct word to use for easements. I went through that earlier, how that easements don’t take the land away from the landowner.

A person who owns a cabin near me has a gas line running through my property (it was there when I bought the place). At the time it was run, I suspect the owners also owned the cabin, and built it for convenience of relatives. It’s a pain, because a great deal of it is above ground. However, the cabin owner is no longer using it, so one of these days, I will get around to seeing if I can remove it. The owner was told to replace her line, or get her gas cut off. She was always complaining about people causing it to break (it was virtually rotten), but when we started smelling gas around here every time someone occupied the cabin (I didn’t know that at the time, but it became evident later), I called the gas company.

They said they couldn’t find any leak on the main gas line. I said it wasn’t consistent, so perhaps it was from one of the cabins. They took the sniffer up her line, and found several leaks. They put a lock on the meter, and told her they wouldn’t turn her gas back on until she replaced the gas line.

Apparently she decided to go with LP (I haven’t been up that way to see if she has a tank, but the meter has been removed now). If she ever decides to put a new line in, she will almost certainly put it in to go to another connection, as there is a place much closer to her where there are a number of gas meters. I suspect that when hers was originally put in, ours was at the end of the line. Most of it was owned by the family who originally settled the area, and they owned 3 gas wells. Our gas was originally coming friom those wells when we first moved here.


#66

Where it didn’t happen isn’t the issue, is it? It’s where it has happened that is at issue here. The fact that it hasn’t happened everywhere is not relevant. The fact that it has happened in numerous places is relevant.

I stand by my views, and apparently the views of the Heritage Foundation, that pure competition should be the goal, not the search of corporate welfare to undermine competition, especially when smaller businesses are ineligible for the same welfare.

I have seen numerous people here scoff at the “lazy” people on welfare and say that the government should repeal the welfare system. How is corporate welfare any different? Instead of seeking innovation in the marketplace, they want government to help them beat down competitors. And that’s not what capitalistic competition should be about.

And, you can lay the blame solely on government, fine. It still takes two to tango.


#67
  1. You mentioned one place where it happened; I mentioned one where it didn’t.

  2. I suggested that it happens with other companies; you haven’t given me an honest answer about that.


#68

fine that walmart is capitalist…but walmart supports anything but. WAlmart is not evil in itself…didn’t start out as evil. but those that control it now are on the side of evil…whether they know it or not.


#69

So what? It’s happened all across the country. There is NO shortage of documentation about this type of thing happening.

  1. I suggested that it happens with other companies; you haven’t given me an honest answer about that.

Post 60, Susanna. Big Box Stores have adopted Wal-Mart tactics. Still isn’t fair to the mom and pop stores. The fact that a dozen or so box store-types do it still doesn’t make them innocent, Susanna.

I know you like to shop at Wal-Mart, and I’m not saying that to be down on you or anything like that. I shopped at Wal-Mart all the time growing up because I never thought about what they were doing. I was a kid then. But I can tell you to date, I have not been in a Wal-Mart store in over 24 months. If you like to shop there, that is perfectly acceptable, as you are free to choose.

But being a conservative, I have to disagree with the way Wal-Mart moves into many communities. When they collude with government to get subsidies, special deals, and use eminent domain at the expense of taxpayers, it really is little different than the “central planning” that communists use. And it’s still unfair to businesses with which they compete that do not get the corporate welfare items. I like capitalism far more than socialism as I believe socialism never works, and this is socialism, and it takes BOTH Wal-Mart and Big Government to pull this off. That’s collusion and THAT, TOO is wrong.


#70

You still have only cited one specific instance, and make a generalization about the rest of them, and where other stores are doing the same, you accuse them of copying Walmart. Where is your evidence? Tax breaks and easements have been going on probably since before Walmart existed. And it’s because the communities - not just the governments of those communities - want more businesses. It’s not only stores that do this. I remember a manufacturer in Tipp City, OH, that got a tax break to move into the community. I don’t remember off-hand what it was. Oh, and I haven’t lived in Tipp City for nearly 20 years. I believe that happened while Walmart was still confined to Arkansas.


#71

The city I live in, Rapid City, refused to give Walmart tax breaks for a new distribution center and has also blocked the building of a second Walmart store, for reasons similar to BananaRepublic’s complaints.

The city of Rapid City and the surrounding areas have lost perhaps tens of thousands of jobs because of it, due to the new jobs that Walmart would have created, as well as the new commerce and industry that would have been created.

The city DID approve such things for Cabela’s new store, while refusing to give Scheels a similar deal. (You don’t have to take my word for it, but you’ll have to look it up yourself.)

As long as cities and states charge sales tax and property tax, there WILL be competition for businesses between them. The Walmart distribution center ended up going to North Platte Nebraska, even though Rapid City was their preferred location.

So what if a city government cares enough about their people to give tax breaks to business to promote job growth? Obviously a lesson never learned by the city council here, nor by the various state governments or federal government. This explains job flight to China, India, Mexico and even EUROPE, where they have learned the lesson to try to ATTRACT business rather than tax it into the ground.

Congratulations to cities that care about their people enough to give Cabela’s, Walmart, Sheels and all other job producers a break.

Ideally, cities wouldn’t charge any company taxes, and neither would the federal and state governments.

It is double taxation anyway, since businesses in a free market society are owned by the people and the people are taxed enough already.


#72

Susanna, one thing you will learn about me is that I don’t make claims of fact that I can’t back up. I have been mistaken in the past, but when I say something, typically I’ve done some homework. Here’s a decent start on the eminent domain issue for you. As I pointed out earlier, Wal-Mart isn’t the only one, but since that was the company in the OT, that’s why the focus. And FYI, I do not shop at Costco, Lowes, Home Cheapo, or Sams Club, either. So, some of these articles cover other stores. The internet is rich with such articles.

http://www.momandpopnyc.com/campaigns/walmart/articles/Eminent%20Domain/BigBoxEminentDomain,%20WSJ,%2012.08.04.pdf

Wal-Mart, Eminent Domain and Corporate Welfare

Eminent domain: A big-box bonanza? - Jun. 24, 2005

Coyote Blog Blog Archive Get Wal-Mart Out of the Public Trough

That’s just scratching the surface, and that is also only the eminent domain issue. That has nothing to do with the fact that Wal-Mart is subsidized.

This site does a good job of researching the amount of subsidies Wal-Mart has received.

Wal-Mart Subsidy Watch - brought to you by Good Jobs First

http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/pdf/wmtstudy.pdf

TPJ Watch Your Assets

I don’t care if all of the big box stores do it, it is unfair competition because it’s not available to all businesses. It’s corporate welfare at its worst. I’m a free market advocate, but when I say free, I mean NO GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES.

Wal-Mart donated $60,000 to a gay and transsexual group to bribe their support for a local Wal-Mart store.

They support ObamaCare.

They support raising the minimum wage.

And because you shop there, you will defend them. Fine. But don’t claim that all of this is fair when this type of public assistance isn’t available to all businesses.


#73

Well, they didn’t lose the jobs, they just didn’t get additional jobs.

The city DID approve such things for Cabela’s new store, while refusing to give Scheels a similar deal. (You don’t have to take my word for it, but you’ll have to look it up yourself.)

I’m not one to call BS on a whole lot. I will take your word on that one.

As long as cities and states charge sales tax and property tax, there WILL be competition for businesses between them. The Walmart distribution center ended up going to North Platte Nebraska, even though Rapid City was their preferred location.

And that’s sad. It shouldn’t have been available to Wal-Mart at all.

So what if a city government cares enough about their people to give tax breaks to business to promote job growth? Obviously a lesson never learned by the city council here, nor by the various state governments or federal government. This explains job flight to China, India, Mexico and even EUROPE, where they have learned the lesson to try to ATTRACT business rather than tax it into the ground.

I don’t disagree with the taxing it into the ground part, but I also don’t think that we should subsidize it, either.

Congratulations to cities that care about their people enough to give Cabela’s, Walmart, Sheels and all other job producers a break.

Too bad, in the interest of fairness, that they don’t offer existing businesses the same corporate welfare. At least one study shows that the economics end up about neutral when Wal-Mart moves into an area, in that it’s basically consuming existing market share in the end, not creating new markets.

Ideally, cities wouldn’t charge any company taxes, and neither would the federal and state governments.

It is double taxation anyway, since businesses in a free market society are owned by the people and the people are taxed enough already.

Agreed. Double, and even triple taxation is horrible for American businesses. All I want is a completely business-neutral playing field where large companies have to play by the same rules as small business when it comes to acquiring property and paying taxes. That means that government has to change. But it also means that I will not support the large stores that take advantage of these types of corporate welfare.


#74

Walmart wins the fight to set up a store near Manassas Civil War Battlefield.

A new fight at Civil War site – latimes.com


#75

BR, I’m not checking all your links. I suspect they are all of individual instances of Walmart getting breaks. If any of them relate to other companies, which you have not addressed, tell me which ones, and I’ll take a gander at them. Not right now, because in a few minutes I have to leave to get a haircut.


#76

I have addressed them. I spent time finding the links for you. Do you want me to get Marlin Perkins to read them to you? So don’t tell me I haven’t addressed them simply because you are too busy to open a link. I addressed it way back in post 60 as well.

It doesn’t make a difference if Wal-Mart’s not the only one. Again, this thread started about Wal-Mart, so that’s what I focused on. I hate all corporate welfare, and I hate the high taxes that businesses must pay when they can’t get the same welfare that big business gets.

It’s not a fair playing field. So top telling me I haven’t addressed an issue simply because you’re too busy. I just addressed it, damnit.


#77

OK, so your links are saying that some other stores do the same thing. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. And they aren’t just copying Walmart. It’s common practice.

I just asked you if they addressed them. I honestly didn’t have time to look at them when I posted previously.


#78

It’s common practice, but so is adultery. Doesn’t make it right.


#79

You seem like you are suffering from trying to make an intelligent argument. It’s pretty frustrating when you inject researched facts into a debate and the people aren’t even willing to take in the info and make an informed opinion.

Welcome to the healthcare debate.


#80

I’m honestly neither pro nor anti Wal-Mart, but I will say what bugs ME the most. Union people who started the anti-Wal-Mart campaign. They have a bone in the fight BIG TIME, and a LOT of money to toss around trying to put them out of business with every, “It’s Wal-Mart’s fault” slogan they could come up with. Sound familiar? :wink:
It’s Wal-Mart’s fault that companies went overseas. It’s Wal-Mart’s fault that states offer incentives for them to move to their town with the hopes of economic growth. It’s Wal-Mart’s fault that buying hammers in gross quantities is cheaper. (Never mind that Wal-Mart doesn’t even SELL hammers, screws, nuts, or bolts. They STILL put the Mom & Pop Hardware stores out of busness just by BEING there.)
Mom & Pop stores went out of business a long time ago. Back then the evil entity was
THE MALL!