Walmart is not evil.


#81

I realize that this site is what it is, and I’ve enjoyed every minute of it. But this is one area where, as a conservative, I have severe issues. Because something is business related, people tend to think that whatever action is being taken is completely justifiable under the broad umbrella term called “free market”. A corporation murdered someone? Must be okay, it’s a free market ya know. Or, they blame it all on government, who is to blame as well, as I’ve mentioned.

There’s nothing “free” about arbitrarily handing some businesses taxpayer money and not having the same benefit available to smaller businesses or businesses that are pre-existing in an area.

As for the health care debate, I can find plenty wrong with the HR 3200 bill without even mentioning “death panels”.


#82
  1. I’d say you hit the nail on the head right here. I’m neither particularly pro or anti, but it’s the best place for me to shop.

  2. Mom & Pop stores started going out of business with the advent of supermarkets.

Might I add that there was a Mom & Pop hardware store in the community near me. It had been there for 3 generations. They sold out to Ace Hardware a few years ago - because their son didn’t want to make it the 4th generation. Ace hardware had previously tried in that town, but couldn’t compete with the Mom & Pop. They had employees that didn’t know anything about the merchandise. They still do, but they also have some from the previous owner, which does make it better. You could get anything at that Mom & Pop store - that you will never find in an Ace Hardware.

Oh, btw, the town with the Walmart where I shop also has, as I mentioned before, a Kmart, and a Trader Horn. This is a relatively small town.


#83

Mom & Pop stores started going out of business with the advent of supermarkets.

I guess we should boycott Kroger, National (are there still any of those around), Giant Eagle, Bi-Lo - whatever big supermarkets there are. And of course, the mob-owned A&P started it all.


#84

So Susanna, you still have not addressed the unfair nature of corporate welfare.

Is it fair to a mom and pop store to give Wal-Mart a 10 year exemption on their property taxes when that same benefit is not available to the mom and pop stores? How is that right? It’s not.

What this really represents is government control over your money, no better than central planning committees in the Soviet Union.

  1. They offer Wal-Mart tax breaks on the real estate. This is often valued in the tens of millions per store.
  2. They then raise your property taxes to offset the lost taxes.
  3. Wal-Mart then can undercut everyone because they play by different rules. One store, say Ace Hardware, that has been in business forever, didn’t ever get an exemption and wouldn’t get one if they asked. They must pay the taxes and pass that cost on to the consumers.
  4. Taxpayers only recoup the increased taxes to the extent they shop at Wal-mart. This errodes choice, a fundamental virtue of the ‘free market’.

It matters not whether the mom and pop businesses ultimately go under. The mere fact that they are harmed economically is sufficient to me to deem corporate welfare inherently anti-‘free market’.


#85

Why? What corporate welfare did they receive?


#86

Think about it in the reverse, Susanna.

If Wal-Mart had to pay the millions in exempted property taxes, the locality would not have a need to raise your taxes.

Wal-Mart’s prices would then be higher, but you would have more money in your pocket for shopping there or spending the money wherever you wanted.


#87

I did not ever say that corporate welfare should be allowed - I said that it is the government’s fault for allowing it to exist at all, and indirectly, the majority of the people who allowed it to happen.

Like I said, businesses shouldn’t be taxed at all.


#88

The majority of the people don’t allow eminent domain. It’s not like they put it to a vote. And you’re blaming one party to a wrong and not both parties is ridiculous. It’s like a gang rape and you’re just wanting to blame the person who was holding the victim down, and not anyone else. Ridiculous.


#89

I’m not in the “Walmart is-” or "Walmart isn’t- crowds. I don’t like Walmart, but I don’t hate their business approach that much either. I like that Walmart is not a “buy-American” business and is an anti-union company.

I couldn’t care less if Walmart intentionally puts other companies out of business, that’s their own damn fault for not being competitive. However, the fact that Walmart willingly supports Obama-esque policies is hypocritical to say the least.

If people don’t like Walmart enough, it’s their responsibility that they don’t shop there, period. Myself - I don’t shop there anyhow. Just like K-Mart and Target, their quality is crap to me.


#90

Yeah, but you overlook the fact that Wal-Mart receives subsidies that other companies can’t get, which nobody can legitimately claim is fair.


#91

Some theory behind why people believe Wal-Mart is good just because they sell you cheap stuff.
Why We Believe Lies, Even When We Learn the Truth | Newsweek Voices - Sharon Begley | Newsweek.com

“Rather than search rationally for information that either confirms or disconfirms a particular belief,” he says, “people actually seek out information that confirms what they already believe.”


#92

Well I do give them credit for using the system to their own favor. I don’t blame any company for using this system to make their own better off. =\


#93

That’s true, but I have a lot of reasons to dislike Obama’s health care plan, and none of them are death panels.

But that part I agree with. I keep seeing people say that Wal-Mart putting other companies out of business is “fair” because of “free markets”, “it’s just competition”, “small business had the wrong business model”… And those might be contributing factors.

But the bottom line truth is that when Wal-Mart receives subsidies that existing businesses don’t receive and cannot apply for, it’s unfair competition.

And then to further say that “it’s all government’s fault” is just naive.


#94

In this political climate, you HAVE to work through the corruption of the government to do business.

And then to further say that “it’s all government’s fault” is just naive.

It is just the governments fault, and mostly the democrats fault at that.

It isn’t naive, the government doesn’t LET other companies apply for the same things.

It actually ISN’T hypocritical for Walmart to support obamacare, I would as well if I ran Walmart because it saves on the biggest COST of business. I can pass the taxes on to consumers and many of my competitors cannot and will go bankrupt. It is a double fronted success. No more health benefits, no more competitors, Walmart wins big time.

Is this Walmarts fault? No, it isn’t, it is still the government’s fault for even allowing such things as socialized anything to come about, and the people for tolerating such things.

The government giving tax breaks to certain business and not to others is the same thing as a centrally planned economy, and the same thing as socialism == communism. This system naturally favors big business and is what creates monopolies.

Every business want a monopoly, Walmart was just the big company at the right time, as were others, and I can’t blame them for that.

It is either play this corrupt and criminal government, or go under. Walmart is making a wise decision, as they have no reason or obligation to care about the rest of society if it won’t hurt their sales, and as far as I know, Walmart’s sales are up.


#95

Right, and if government tells you that rape is legal for you but not for anyone else, and you rape someone, you’re still wrong for raping them. No different. Government’s wrong, you’d be wrong.

It actually ISN’T hypocritical for Walmart to support obamacare, I would as well if I ran Walmart because it saves on the biggest COST of business. I can pass the taxes on to consumers and many of my competitors cannot and will go bankrupt. It is a double fronted success. No more health benefits, no more competitors, Walmart wins big time.

Wal-Mart will reap the benefit from ObamaCare. They won’t be paying the taxes, as it’s not the corporate rates Obama wants to raise.

Is this Walmarts fault? No, it isn’t, it is still the government’s fault for even allowing such things as socialized anything to come about, and the people for tolerating such things.

Many times, the people don’t have a say in eminent domain cases. It’s decided in a back room somewhere.

The government giving tax breaks to certain business and not to others is the same thing as a centrally planned economy, and the same thing as socialism == communism. This system naturally favors big business and is what creates monopolies.

Right, I’m not arguing that the government is innocent.

Every business want a monopoly, Walmart was just the big company at the right time, as were others, and I can’t blame them for that.
It is either play this corrupt and criminal government, or go under. Walmart is making a wise decision, as they have no reason or obligation to care about the rest of society if it won’t hurt their sales, and as far as I know, Walmart’s sales are up.

They are. Subsidized by taxpayer monies, Wal-Mart can offer low prices in the recession. Again, if the government told you that rape was legal, just for you, that still wouldn’t make it right.


#96

They aren’t subsidized, I have a hard time believing the majority of their workers could possibly qualify for any type of welfare, but then again, I live in South Dakota, where welfare bums go to WYOMING because the welfare laws are looser. My view on who can actually collect welfare may be skewed by this.

Not paying a tax is not the same as a subsidization, it is however, the same as a penalty for their competitors.

If anything, it’d be EASIER for Walmart to offer low prices in a recession since they don’t have to pay their employees as much due to market forces, however, this isn’t the case either, as far as I know. Walmart still pays above minimum wage, even in high unemployment zones where they wouldn’t have to.

UFCW | Wal-Martization and Wages

Here is a UNION website that says Walmart pays on average $8.23 an hour and that Walmart’s own statistic is $9.68 an hour. The national unemployment rate is approaching 10% and the real rate is probably 15% and you are telling me that an evil corporation would pay a cent more than minimum to these people? I wouldn’t. I would pay the market rate for an unskilled worker, $7.25. (even this is too much though, in the current conditions, it simply will cause inflation to have to pay this much, and it doesn’t even have an effect on the median income.)

Fine though, Walmart is wrong for participating in the government’s corruption, but in that sense, everybody is wrong for participating.

Everybody who has ever paid taxes is facilitating it instead of doing something about it.


#97

They are the leading employer of welfare and medicare recipients in many, many states.

But subsidy is not welfare or medicare alone. They are being subsidized by you and I when they get a property tax exemption worth millions.

Not paying a tax is not the same as a subsidization, it is however, the same as a penalty for their competitors.

It is a subsidy, because later when they have to raise property taxes, the raise would be less were Wal-Mart not exempt. It’s money NOT going to the localities’ coffers that other businesses have to pay.

If anything, it’d be EASIER for Walmart to offer low prices in a recession since they don’t have to pay their employees as much due to market forces, however, this isn’t the case either, as far as I know. Walmart still pays above minimum wage, even in high unemployment zones where they wouldn’t have to.
UFCW | Wal-Martization and Wages
Here is a UNION website that says Walmart pays on average $8.23 an hour nd that Walmart’s own statistic is $9.68 an hour. The national unemployment rate is approaching 10% and the real rate is probably 15% and you are telling me that an evil corporation would pay a cent more than minimum to these people? I wouldn’t. I would pay the market rate for an unskilled worker, $7.25. (even this is too much though, in the current conditions, it simply will cause inflation to have to pay this much, and it doesn’t even have an effect on the median income.)

Fine though, Walmart is wrong for participating in the government’s corruption, but in that sense, everybody is wrong for participating.

Everybody who has ever paid taxes is facilitating it instead of doing something about it.

This is exactly why Wal-Mart supports raising the minimum wage! Since they already pay above the minimum wage, forcing other companies to raise their wages, through government, will make Wal-Mart even more competitive. And that is despicable. They want government to help them beat some more people up, and that is just plain wrong.

Lots of people are doing things about it. Hercules, California, actually used eminent domain to take land AWAY from Wal-Mart. I don’t think that was right, either, but there are people tracking this issue and fighting the corruption.


#98

That is fighting past corruption with more corruption.

Eminent domain isn’t even constitutional, as the constitution requires JUST compensation, and land can be priceless to certain people. (Like a family ranch.)

This is still a problem of government and not of Walmart exclusively.

Walmart is little more to blame then the people that vote for these politicians.

The people that vote that way are foolish, where as Walmart is intelligent for doing so. But nonetheless, they are not inherently evil in their doings.


#99

Eminent domain in this case isn’t constitutional, period. It says that property can only be taken for public purpose. Wal-Mart is not a public purpose, but that’s been perverted by courts that aren’t even in the same jurisdiction as the people who had their land taken.


#100

You’re right, I don’t think that the founding fathers had shopping centers in their head when designing eminent domain, still, it is the out of control government’s fault. It isn’t like Walmart fought that case so that they could continue taking advantage of the corruption, that was somebody else’s case entirely.