Was surveillance of Manafort appropriate?


#21

Still trying to square that with how he was also a foreign agent for the Turkish Government, and their increasingly Islamic-centric POV.

Either he was just greedy, or he has a national-security axe-grind that allows him to embrace whatever position that gets him the power he wants.


#22

Trump has never served in government, it doesn’t matter one bit. Starting with that bullet and the rest of your bullets only get more ridiculous.


#23

Qualified, intelligent, personable. Great choice,


#24

? What? Michael Flynn was a bad decision. He was fired from the Obama administration for incompetence and misdeeds, and Trump hired him on, only to be fired again for incompetence and misdeeds.

I echo disappointment in Ben Carson and Rick Perry; not because they’re bad people, but because I’d prefer that their respected departments were closed, just as Perry himself advocated.

I 'll also echo that Sessions was a bad choice; pragmatically, because he had involvement in too many areas Trump wanted investigated, and also because he tried to use his department to turn the tide against marijuana legalization, which is highly inane.

I’ll disagree on Tillerson; he’s actually proved himself surprisingly capable at his job and, together with General McMaster, a force to rein in some of Trump’s own idiocy.

Tillerson even acknowledges “There’s no such thing as energy independence”, which is just amazing to hear from a former Exxon exec.

I’ll also dissent on Betsy Davos, as she embraces school vouchers, which is something we desperately need to make our school system more relevant.


#25

YOU were the one who brought Sessions into the conversation. Sessions didn’t “lie” about ANYTHING having to do with “Russians.”


#26

The only thing I meant was what I said; so far, I’ve only heard that there were wiretaps, and nothing to the effect that there was anything damning on them.


#27

Hey, I don’t claim to understand the man’s motivations, but I’ve seen people justify stranger things in their own minds for money.


#28

Except that he has made incredibly stupid unforced mistakes?

Even Steve Bannon has said the firing of Comey was one of the largest mistakes in modern Presidential history. The fact that he brings issues back into the media that would otherwise have died, over and over again, whining about things like a petulant child.

He had the Justice dept say that Comey was fired because of Rod Rosenstein’s memo, then the next day goes on NBC and admits it was because he wanted to get the Russia investigation over with.

He revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting, and while that is his prerogative as President, it’s still stupid and careless (unless it was part of a larger plan, which I’d bet a months pay it was not).

Fake Time magazine covers (while not a political mistake, it is a public relations mistake, a bizarre one at that).

Anthony Scaramucci (enough said)

Bazaar lines about crowd sizes and convincing people that his election win was “historic” and the largest win in (insert timeframe)

After promising throngs of Boy Scouts gathered at the group’s National Scout Jamboree that he would not delve into politics, Trump went on a 35-minute rant dissing his rival Clinton.

These sorts of mistakes aren’t because he isn’t a politician, they are because he is a habitual liar and obviously extremely insecure about who he is.

Very “Presidential”:


#29

Sorry Dave, you misunderstood the question, I was asking if you were talking about Manafort or someone else.

You read it like this:

I’M SORRY, are we…”

Not how I meant it.

either way…

Question:

Didn’t Sessions say, under oath, that he had never met with the Russians and it’s now been uncovered that he’s met with them at least twice, possibly 3 times? None of which were disclosed on his SF-86.

Or do you know something I don’t?

You don’t believe the “oh I forgot” defense? Do you?


#30

Fair enough.


#31

Nobody cares what Bannon thinks except you it seems. I’m glad he’s gone. Comey deserved to get fired, a Democrat such as yourself should agree since he helped destroy Hillary’s run. The rest of your points are not any better.

I like the gif though, slow poke was meandering in everyone’s way. You’d know that if you watched closely.


#32

I agree Bannon’s departure is a good thing, Trumps would be even better, but I digress…

Far as Comey, I’m just not sure why people assume that because I am left of most people here at RO as a general rule that I must support what “the left” wants or what “the Dems” want.

I would consider myself independent as there are several issues I disagree with “the left” about and some that I agree. But it seems that people (right and left) need to define others with a “group tag” and then attack their perception of a position rather than asking the individual what s/he thinks about a particular issue. Maybe you don’t have the time or inclination to just ask, “how did you feel about the firing of Comey?”, but if you can’t be bothered to ask, expect me to point out that you are attacking some perception of my politics, not my actual politics

My comment about Bannon being a perfect example. You and Bannon are on the right, but I didn’t say that because Bannon believes something that his views represent everyone on the right.

As far as the justification of how Trump acted, that’s disgusting that you’d justify it.


#33

Try not to post things this stupid. He SHOOK HANDS with the Russian Ambassador at the GOP convention. Is that “meeting with” the Russians? He had a brief meeting with that same Russian Ambassador for 5 minutes on a day when he met with MULTIPLE people in his Senate office. Is THAT “meeting with the Russians?”


#34

And you just accept that? He said it, so it must be true? Now, who’s being stupid?

For someone so skeptical of government and the people in it, your skepticism is awfully selective.

Again, if this is a one-off, I’d probably believed that too. Or if Sessions was on the edge of Trump’s orbit, I might agree with you, but given Sessions early support and all the other people that met with Russians, I don’t believe for one split second that Sessions meetings were incidental.

If Trump weren’t planning a huge building project in Russia during his campaign and lying about to the American people, I might believe it. If several people around Trump hadn’t been caught lying about their involvement with Russian diplomats or people known to be loyal to Putin, I might cast it off. If they didn’t get caught trying to create secret back channels, or if Kushner hadn’t tried to convince the Russians to use their encrypted equipment to talk to the Russian government, I might be convinced that this was the way you explain it.

What do we tell our kids? If your friends are doing bad things even if you aren’t if they get caught, you are going to look guilty. It’s called guilt by association. Sessions know’s what’s going on or he’s a naive idiot, either way, it makes him look guilty.

When all this comes out, and it will, Session will have his day in court.


#35

…and NONE of that crap is the truth. Please enlighten us as to HOW you know what Trump was “planning” to do. Were YOU privy to the conversations? Are you part of the Trump business? What “involvement” are you talking about here? There is NOTHING WRONG with an incoming President trying to establish “back-channels” with foreign diplomats. If JFK hadn’t done it, we might have gone to war with Russia in 1962. I believe that Jeff Sessions is an honorable man–generally speaking. I don’t believe that he’d risk a perjury charge by lying under oath OR in sworn testimony before Congress. Can YOU tell us who you may have met briefly 9 months ago? I doubt it. Especially if you were a Senator who meets thousands of people every year in the course of doing such work.


#36

So, can I apply this defense to Clinton and her emails?

All you’re trying to do is create a standard of evidence I can’t possibly meet in order to be right.

Let’s take, perhaps the lynchpin of this in my opinion. Trump’s plan to build in Moscow. It would explain an awful lot. Why Trump was being so nice to Putin (yes, this is pure speculation on my part) as any deal that size would need Putin’s direct approval (this one isn’t speculation).

This isn’t even in dispute. Micheal Cohen, Trumps Lawyer, as freely admitted this, claiming it was just a real estate deal, but Trump denied it. He denied having ANY deals in Russia.

Is that a crime? Of what little I know, I have no idea, but it is a bold-faced lie he told because he must of thought that people would judge it poorly, otherwise, why lie?


#37

President Trump DID NOT LIE. There WAS no “deal” with Russia. It may have been discussed at some point, but no “deal” resulted. All the President did was deny that there was any “deal” with the Russians…and that was the truth.
As for Hillary–we KNOW that a crime occurred and the investigation that supposedly ensued was supposed to find out who committed it. Comey and company DID find out and decided not to charge her because–in his words, “There didn’t seem to be any INTENT to violate the National Secrets Act.” INTENT isn’t an ELEMENT of such a crime. Lots of people have been prosecuted for “mistakenly” allowed classified documents to leak to those not cleared for them. The ONLY reason Hillary wasn’t charged is because of who she is…period.


#38

Yes, he did lie because he said:

“I have no dealing’s in Russia, no deals in Russia, I have no deals that could happen in Russia…”

Two of those three are known now to be LIES…

That speech was given right after he won the election.

Here is the actual speech was given by him:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/c/embed/b0e9b060-d820-11e6-a0e6-d502d6751bc8


#39

Somehow or other your proof of lies fails. As I understand it there was an effort to make deals but no deal was ever agreed to or implemented. Therefore no dealings and no deals are in existence, period. Perhaps you view things differently with whatever background you have.


#40

On the other hand, Clinton and Podesta actually made deals with Russians.’