Was the election stolen from Trump?

So let’s ponder this question directly.

A good place to accumulate evidence for the accusation that the election has been stolen.

If you think it has, I’d like you to consider the following…

We have republicans and indeed people here in this forum alleging that there was widespread election fraud. For the sake of this post, I’m simply going to ignore the idea that unsolicited ballots are, in themselves fraud. The question is whether or not there was widespread, coordinated election fraud perpetrated by the Democrats.

Now, take care to note the emphasis on widespread and coordinated because that matters.

I would be willing to bet there are individual instances of fraud that affect one to tens and rarely a few thousand votes in the case of a national election for the President spread out all over the place.

Coordinated would mean there is a widespread conspiracy to commit fraud and indeed in this election Trump is alleging fraud in PA, GA, NV, AZ and MI at the very least, at most It would probably include NC and FL as well even though he won there (and who knows maybe more!).

Here are some examples

image

image

image

So let’s start with the narrative of the Trump campaign, the Republican National Committee, and multiple high-profile Trump supporters which goes roughly like this: Democrats fueled hysteria about a pandemic in order to discredit Trump and shift voting to mail-in ballots that were trivially easy to steal, fake, delete and alter for the Biden-Harris ticket.

Now, besides some of the discontinuity of logic in some of these Tweets, you’d have to believe that Dems simultaneously targeted mail-in ballots in (at least) Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Georgia, the Dems alleged mail-in ballot campaign succeed spectacularly, To pull off this campaign of widespread cheating and voter fraud it was necessary to:

  1. The Dems gained access to or counterfeited millions of ballots nationwide under the note of Louis De Joy a loyal Trump appointee. A man who slowed down mail processing in advance of the biggest vote-by-mail effort in our nation’s history.

  2. Bribe, blackmail or persuade Republican Secretary’s of State in charge of vote counting in Nevada and Georgia (not to mention Republican governors in Arizona and Georgia) to turn a blind eye to ballot fraud in their states and to ensure that numerous election employees and volunteers under them executed the fraud.

  3. Predict the voting results and voting volume in at least 8 states with astonishing accuracy to insure just barely enough Biden votes to achieve credible razor-thin margins instead of bigger margins that would invite widespread skepticism.

  4. Recruit hundreds—if not thousands—of operatives nationwide to subvert hundreds, if not thousands of post office employees, senior election officials, and vote counters.

  5. Circumvent each and every anti-fraud system (audits, ballot tracking, bi-partisan vote-counting monitoring, etc) in the targeted states with maybe only a tiny handful of alleged fraudulent ballots being found by Trump and his supporters.

  6. Succeed in having each and every one of the hundreds or thousands of conspirators in on the fraud to keep their mouths shut to family members, friends, and the press so that there were zero leaks. Again, with just a tiny few that slip through the cracks (as R’s claim to have found some examples of fraud, many of which are easily explained) but fail to expose the wider conspiracy

  7. Cover their tracks so thoroughly and completely that not a single piece of evidence of the sweeping campaign could come to light such that a judge, Secretary of state or voting official who is either a Trump voter or dedicated to the process such that they would call it out. All of this despite a need for close communication and coordination of the complex operation, to have no emails or text messages among conspirators, no recorded conversations and no secret memos come to light.

  8. Eliminate intra-organizational squabbles among competing factions (say, progressives and moderates in the Democrat party) so that at least a few of the hundreds or thousands of conspirators, bitter at maltreatment at the hands of other participants, did not leak details of the operation to exact revenge (Like those loyal to Bernie who feel they’ve been wronged by the Democratic establishment).

Of all the accomplishments of the supposed conspiracy, reducing internecine squabbles to zero in an incredibly fractious party, was by far the most impressive achievement, especially in politics where leaks are as much a part of life as breathing.

Carrying out a plan like this violates every rule of covert operations.

Now, here’s the thing. We’re supposed to believe that the Democrats are competent, disciplined, careful, efficient, tight-lipped, and organized enough, as they would have had to have been to pull off the largest most complex, and sophisticated political operation in history right under the noses of 70,000,000 Trump voters many of which work in the electoral process. If they really did what is being alleged, shouldn’t they be running things?

Ok that last part was tongue-in-cheek, but seriously, you give the Dems waaaaaaay too much credit here to believe what you are alleging here.

So what evidence do we have that Dems pulled off this heist? And allegations and innuendo do not make good evidence, which is why the Trump campaign keeps getting shot down over and over again in court.

If you believe that everyone in the legal system and state government’s not to mention federal government organizations have ALL conspired against the R’s, maybe you should embrace the fact that Republican policies are just that unpopular that people don’t want them hoisted upon us.

1 Like

inb4 “deep state”

To anyone else responding, if you try to explain this with “deep state” I just want you to know you sound like you probably also think the Earth is flat.

2 Likes

I have another theory about Trumps reasons for citing voter fraud.

Get people, like the people in this forum so raving mad they’ll do anything to help, including donating the Trumps legal fund.

When we read the fine print we learn that 50% of what you donate will go towards paying down the debt of his campaign for President.

Here’s the accrual fine print. Look it up for yourself if you don’t believe me.

Trump, again, plays his supporters for suckers.

Oh, and just to this in some perspective, the first $142,000 you give to Biden-Harris goes to the DNC with the next $2,800 going to Biden’s campaign.

Of course, I can already predict the responses…“I’m happy to donate knowing this”…

1 Like

image

This actually went before a judge. If you didn’t see it, how do you know it happened?

Their answer? Someone told us. In other words hearsay. When asked for evidence, there was only hearsay.

Officials in Atlanta, Georgia told the Republican poll watchers and counters that the counting was done for the night and would resume the next morning so the GOP watchers/counters left, only to find out that the DEMOCRAT counters stayed and continued the “count” all through the night, magically finding tens of thousands of Biden votes and virtually NONE for Trump.

Officials in Michigan AND Wisconsin banned GOP poll watchers from the count and even blocked the windows so those they’d sent out of the building couldn’t watch the count through the windows! They did the same thing in Philadelphia, PA! Even after a PA judge ORDERED them to allow the GOP watchers into the counting rooms, PA Democrats REFUSED to do so and continued to “find” thousands of Democrat votes and almost none for Republicans.

Something similar happened in Phoenix, AZ and in Las Vegas, NV.

If you think this was all on the up-and-up, you’re delusional.

2 Likes

First, it’s hard to imagine “GOP” watchers going home knowing their democratic counterparts were going to stay. That in itself is hilarious. Is there a single Trump supporter here, in this forum, that would leave Dems alone? Yet that’s what you’d have to believe. Laughable.

Magically? No not magically, we know that the votes that came in late were heavily skewed to Democrats thanks to Trump who encouraged his voters to vote on election day and to avoid voting by mail.

Easily explained why so many of the late votes went to Biden. Hard to believe this is what you’d consider “magic”. Maybe you believe that counters in NV were looking out the window at the beach while counting. LOL

Lastly, even if you’re right, you need to prove:

  1. What they did was wrong, i.e. it violated state law

  2. They actually changed the vote via some sort of fraud.

Again, all you have is innuendo, nothing solid. You want me to believe that everyone left in that facility was fiercely loyal to Biden such that they’ed pass up the opportunity for 15 minutes of fame they’ed get if they uncovered the alleged cheating on Fox or other right-leaning news organization.

Is the Earth flat?

You apparently think so if you believe this was all on the up and up…just like all Democrat delusions.

They weren’t told that. Everyone was said to be leaving, but the election officials then returned once no one was there to observe. That is somewhat odd, though is not proof of fraud.

All on the up and up? No, I think like most elections there are people who cheat. What I don’t believe is that number was out of the ordinary and I certainly don’t believe that it changed the outcome.

That said the DOJ has just announced it will investigate. I think they should and I think anyone that committed fraud, regardless of who it is and where it leads should be prosecuted. if it turns out that Dems are so good that they turned the results in 5 states and Trump is really the winner, then give it back to Trump.

If that’s true, it is odd, I agree, but I also agree that’s not proof of fraud, but I think we need to know more before we start flinging accusations.

This is priceless…I mean, you can’t make this stuff up.

I’m sure your position would be very different if Trump had won.

Would I be concerned that he might not have won legitimately? Sure, absolutely I freely admit it.

I’ve said since The day after the election. I fully completely and totally support investigations. I hope we do more to secure elections, but also to ensure we do more to encourage people to vote and remove roadblocks, for example, a national voting holiday.

I support Trump’s right to litigate in court, though I think he’s just a sore loser. If this had come down to a single state and a few tens of thousands of votes, sure, but even if there are some irregularities, the fact is, Trump wasn’t very close. Not a landslide, but far from close.

What I wouldn’t do is share any concern about cheating (assuming Trump won) until I looked into it and I felt there was more than just innuendo and conjecture. I certainly would support Biden making blanket statements that have been shown to be false to rile up Democrats in order to make himself feel better about his loss.

Question, can anyone take a position, right now on Trump encouraging electors to go agaisnt the vote in there states?

Just as a hypothetical for now… Would you support that?

Who will give an opinion?

“Odd?” What other purpose could there have been for ONLY Democrat poll workers returning to continue the count but no Republicans? Are you REALLY this obtuse?

1 Like

Sore loser? You Democrats were that for four years.

But it worked for you because you kept his approval ratings below 50% of all of his presidency no matter what he accomplished.

Do save me from your platitudes about fair elections. The only “fair election” is one where your side wins.

Clinton never accused Trump of cheating. There was concern that the Russians had influenced the election and Comey definitely did. All of our intelligence agencies agreed there was interference by Russia. It wasn’t until at least a dozen people were tied up in lies about their dealings with Russians that people really became suspicious.

So the difference is, one was founded on evidence, Trumps claims, so far, are not.

That post is pure BS. Stop digging a deeper hole for yourself by mouthing the same lies. This is why I am disgusted with you. You act like you are some sort of independent thinker. You aren’t.

If you have not gotten the message, I don’t want to debate you because there nothing positive that can come of it. You disrespect me every time you can.

You cut me deep Send, real deep. :roll_eyes:

You don’t care about what I have to say, and it’s mutual. As far you concerned, everything I’ve learned in college and for many years since two graduations useless, and that cuts me to the quick.

You don’t want to debate problems; you only want put downs.

1 Like