White Privilege versus White Guilt


#21

Rebel,
Some very good ideas up there. I like your postive constructive can-do attitude and postive tones. The big picture is all that counts. The world is run, for good or bad, by people who rise above all the petty insignificient stuff that occupies the minds of all to many people who stay bogged down in perpetual defeatism, discontent, goom, and doom because they focus their minds almost exclusively not only upon the Nightly News (as true News Junkies …addicted to Gloom and Doom like a drug) …

… but also upon the endless petty gripes, whining, moaning and groaning, and discontents of about 20% to 30% of the American population who will never be satisfied and contented no matter what.

This perpetually discontented 20% to 30% is made up of Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, Liberals, Conservatives, young people, old people etc …not much can be done for these types … they prefer self-flagalation and constant groans about one thing or the other. They like it, otherwise they’d get off of it.

The majority of the American population are up-ward mobile, postive-constructive, can-do, fighting spirit type people who spend their time accomplishing worthwhile stuff as people of action.

The United States Military is full of people like that, so is the National Football League, so is the world of Bull Riding and Hockey and all the other sports in America… NASCAR is packed with up-ward mobile fighting-heart type people.

Sure, they have their share of problems, but these fighting-types focus on the Big Picture and regularly accomplish a lot of wothwhile stuff.

This human fighting spirit revealed in this video below is what it’s all about.

In this vid we got Blacks and Whites and Hispanics out there demonstrating a fighting spirit with their minds off the petty insignificient perpetual discontents of the defeatist gloom and doom fringe of humanity.

This is a tough cool motivating vid, you’ll love it:

Cheers.

:cool:


#22

That doesn’t change the fact that you started with fewer obstacles to success. I don’t get how a rational person can deny that there is such a thing as white privilege. Is it not a fact that blacks get harsher sentences for the same crimes? Is it not a fact that blacks are less likely to be hired for jobs, be approved for loans, etc., etc., etc.?


#23

[quote=“Caudipteryx, post:22, topic:34527”]
That doesn’t change the fact that you started with fewer obstacles to success. I don’t get how a rational person can deny that there is such a thing as white privilege. Is it not a fact that blacks get harsher sentences for the same crimes? Is it not a fact that blacks are less likely to be hired for jobs, be approved for loans, etc., etc., etc.?
[/quote]That is what they claimed when they instituted Affirmative Action. Affirmative action rewards hiring blacks, and other minorities. Minorities tend to demand less, wage wise. So, if jobs are harder to get for blacks, there is another reason, than race. Maybe its because employers don’t want “gangstas” greeting their customers. Maybe, it is the piercings, tatoos, or sideways baseball caps. Or, just a thought, WORK ETHIC?
I write loans. It is a fact that single black mothers are better risks, than singles white mothers, single black fathers, and married couples. If I discriminate on the basis of race, I am subject to criminal and civil prosecution. I do not care what figures your research shows, I write as many or more loans for black people, as I do for white people. So, your “data” on loans, is also skewed. It is my industry, that you claim is racist, and I reject that notion. All Money Is Green, and loans, are no different. I do not care what color you are, just what your stability is. If you are stable, you get the loan. If not, oh well, better luck next time.

If blacks don’t get the job, it is because they are not as desirable as an employee, as the next guy.
If they don’t get loans, it’s because they have a stability issue.

Liberals sure love the “race card”.


#24

So you’re just denying that whites are more likely to be approved for loans than blacks with equal credit?

Are you also denying that blacks receive harsher sentences for the same crimes and are less likely to be hired for jobs even if their qualifications are the same?


#25

Folks,

Caud has convinced me that I’m evil and spoiled. I will hand over everything for which I have worked to a black family, including my son’s future and saving my wife’s life because neither I or they deserve it.

I’ll even give them my job but, they would have to produce results to keep it.


#26

Hi CL, I thought you were ignoring me. Guess you were unable to stick to it.


#27

Yes, I am denying just that. We are scrutinized by the Federal Government. ONE complaint of racism, and they camp out on our doorstep. You must be able to show that if a white buyer qualified, and a black buyer does not, the REASON for the denial. Anyone who alleges that loans are determined by someone’s race, is naive, or just trying to stir up trouble, by playing the Race Card.Same thing with job applicants. One charge of racism, and here comes the ACLU. Believe me, no employer worth his investment, would be STUPID enough to deny a job, on racist grounds.
Sure, more black are sentenced to prison. But, if it was due to Racism, believe me, Jesse and Al would be on the 6 o’clock news, telling the whole world. I know personally, a judge sentences on many factors, and one is their attitude. Blacks who enter court with the hardcore rapper’s persona and being defiant, can expect a longer sentence than someone dressed in business attire, claiming remorse.
Have you given any thought to the idea that maybe they don’t get the loans, because they are not qualified? Maybe they didn’t get the job, because of poor attendance, poor performance, or inability to make themselves presentable to the public. I am not allowing someone with crusty old dreadlocks, to handle the food going into my mouth. I am not going to allow a concrete company to pour my new patio, if their helpers look like “gangstas”. Who wants a waiter, with a tattoo on his neck.
I have never been hired over a black man, with my qualifications, but I have had a job lost to a black man, who had less experience, training and job performance, due to Affirmative Action.


#28

According to Caud and his liberal friends, you deserved that because you are white.


#29

You enjoy making things up, don’t you?


#30

No, that’s not the case. Why are you ignoring the study I showed earlier? Researchers placed 1200 ads in 300 markets offering to sell identical products. In half of them, the hand holding the item in the image was white. In the other half, the hand was black. In everything else, the ads were exactly the same. Result: the ads where the hand holding the item was black were 17% less likely to receive offers. Additionally, potential buyers were 17% less likely to include their name in e-mails, 44% less likely to accept delivery by mail, and 56% more likely to express concern about making a long-distance payment. What is your explanation for that? And how would these figures affect actual black entrepreneurs trying to make a living, in competition with white entrepreneurs? Isn’t it obvious from the data collected by studies like this, that black people simply face more obstacles to success?

Race, discrimination, and iPods: Experimental evidence from online markets | vox - Research-based policy analysis and commentary from leading economists


#31

Your posts indicate that you support affirmative action. If so, then what I stated is true.


#32

You were saying that I was in favor of racial quotas, and I’m not. The fact that I can admit the obvious about difficulties faced by blacks in this country doesn’t mean I think they should be given preference over whites in hiring. Affirmative action is too broad a term to say whether I agree or disagree. But what you said was wrong.


#33

So, you are saying that it’s wrong that Tiny1 lost his job due to affirmative action?

What you have been saying is that whites should feel guilty for being white and having their own achievements for which they have personally worked hard to obtain.


#34

He would have to explain what he meant by that. If it means there was some kind of racial hiring quota involved or that someone was otherwise given preference over him due to race, then yes.

What you have been saying is that whites should feel guilty for being white and having their own achievements for which they have personally worked hard to obtain.

Still making stuff up? No, I’ve been pointing out that blacks simply face more challenges to success. If that makes you feel guilty then so be it. It doesn’t make me feel guilty, and I’m white. But I can acknowledge that things would have been harder for me if I were black.


#35

Because your study is skewed. I am not dealing in YOUR study, I am dealing in REALITY. I work in the field you claim makes racist decisions about who gets a loan, which, IS ILLEGAL. This study deals with retail sales to the public. Has absolutely nothing to do with racist loan officers, as you earlier implied.
If people, in general, choose to buy from a person, then it stands to reason, they have a reason to trust that person. If the only difference was the color of the hand, it stands to reason, that 17% less people trust dealing with black people. That has zero to do with employers being racist, or loan officers breaking the law. I personally don’t consider race, when I set out to buy something, but others, obviously do. This is because of a lack of trust. Is it well founded? The desire to be “gangsta”, wearing your pants around your knees, piercings, tattoos, etc., turns a lot of people off. Often, Bikers have a tough time, too.
Your assertion was that blacks get turned down for loans, and lose job prospects, because of racists in the industries. Now, you want to blame people’s lack of trust in the black population, on race, when behavior is more like the determining factor. I live in the rural South. I know a few who refuse to have dealings with black folk, but they are generally old timers, stuck in the last century. The majority of people I know, don’t care about peoples’ color.
You cannot force acceptance, you must earn that. Are you aware that Hispanics are 19 times more likely to be in a youth gang, and blacks are 15 time more likely to be gang bangers, than whites? Consider that blacks are seven times more likely to commit murder, and eight times as likely to commit robbery. This is REALITY. So, people have a reason for their lack of trust. Maybe it isn’t Politically Correct, but that is REALITY.


#36

Skewed how, exactly?

Yes it is illegal, and that’s why Bank of America recently had to pay $335 million to settle charges of a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified black and Hispanic borrowers.

Exactly. Thank you for acknowledging that.

I personally don’t consider race, when I set out to buy something, but others, obviously do.

Yes, they obviously do, and that’s my point. If you’re black, you are obviously going to have a tougher time succeeding because people will judge you based on the color of your skin. Put another way, if you are white, you are obviously going to have an easier time. Not that there aren’t some whites who have it harder than some blacks. But black people’s chances of success are hurt by their skin color, while whites’ are helped. Now that we agree on that, I don’t really know what’s left to argue about over the existence of white privilege.


#37

Caudipteryx

Skewed how, exactly?

You started off claiming that loan officers and employers discriminate on the factor of race, then, a midstream change to a study evaluating retail sales to the public.

Yes it is illegal, and that’s why Bank of America recently had to pay $335 million to settle charges of a widespread pattern of discrimination against qualified black and Hispanic borrowers.

That lawsuit was for steering black folks into higher interest loans, not denying loans. If they had educated themselves, instead of just jumping to buy, they could have avoided that. You contended that blacks were denied loans, that white buyer with equal qualifications, got. Believe me, there were just as many white buyers steered into those loans, too. There was no recourse for them, since the law suit was for racial discrimination.
That was one lender, not a whole industry.

Exactly. Thank you for acknowledging that.
Still, that is due to their behavior, not the fact that they are black.

Yes, they obviously do, and that’s my point. If you’re black, you are obviously going to have a tougher time succeeding because people will judge you based on the color of your skin. Put another way, if you are white, you are obviously going to have an easier time. Not that there aren’t some whites who have it harder than some blacks. But black people’s chances of success are hurt by their skin color, while whites’ are helped. Now that we agree on that, I don’t really know what’s left to argue about over the existence of white privilege.
Tell Obama the color of his skin mattered. C’mon man a black man, is President. If things were as racist as you imply, Obama would have been defeated, handily. Obama and Holder do not seem to care that Black Unemployment is double the national rate. Seems if this was as OBVIOUS as you tell it, they’d be all over this.
Blacks chances of success are hurt, by their behavior, not skin color. If they weren’t 15 times more likely to be in a gang, people would be less wary. If they didn’t write music that condones the objectification of women, disrespect for our laws and enforcement, and killing whitey, they’d have an easier time. If their social leaders, Jackson and Sharpton, didn’t play the race card, at every turn, they’d be more accepted. If the Black Panthers didn’t put a bounty on the head of a concerned citizen, illegally, and if they didn’t publicly intimidate voters, blacks would get more respect.
Liberals like to villainize people and act like we are all dressed in white hoods, burning crosses in peoples’ yards. If you don’t wish to be viewed as a thug, don’t talk and act like one.
If you want a job, where you must be in the public eye, don’t tattoo a pot leaf on your neck. Pull up your pants, and act like you got some sense. Quit blaming all your problems on others, and start taking your life seriously. Work Ethic, dependability and attitude, are the requirements that most employers look for.

By your thinking, Asian Americans should have the same challenges.
From the US Dept of Labor website:

Asian-Americans are more likely than either whites or blacks to be employed as wage and salary workers in the private sector, with more than 8 in 10 employed Asians working in the private sector. Conversely, Asians are less likely to work for government than are either whites or blacks. Self-employment is a growing alternative to private sector wage and salary employment among Asians. In 2010, 6.3 percent of Asians were self-employed. According to the most recent Census Bureau Survey of Business Owners (2007), the number of Asian-owned businesses expanded at a rate (40.4 percent), a rate that more than doubles the national average between 2002 and 2007.

Asians make more money than Whites, Blacks, or Hispanics. They have a lower unemployment rate, than Whites, Blacks or Hispanics. Less crime, etc.
Why? Because they are raised in a culture of RESPECT. In Japan, they wear surgical masks to work, when sick, to prevent spreading their germs.
You try to spin my words so that I agree with your premise, and I do Not. Blacks get, what they ask for. They embrace thuggery, and bad behavior. Hispanics often embrace crime and violence, also. Asians excel, because their behavior and attitude, benefit the potential employer.
Sure, there are evil people who discriminate on the basis of race, but most challenges blacks face, are of their own making. There are many successful black people, and they got there by hard work, and proper attitude. Emulating hardcore rap stars, is not the answer.


#38

No, it’s because they’re black. You just admitted that. You said:

It wasn’t because of their behavior, because they weren’t even real people - they were researchers, and everything about the ads was identical except for the color of the hand holding the item. The ads where it was a black hand were less likely to get sales. Again, not because of behavior, but because they were black.

About Obama being President, Asian achievement, etc. - no one ever said that black people can’t succeed. But they do have it harder for various reasons, including prejudice, the fact that black families on average are much poorer than whites, the psychological effect of being part of an underclass, etc. Of course, there are plenty of blacks who succeed. But all else being equal, it’s generally harder to succeed if you’re black, that’s all.


#39

Caud,

Tell us what we must do to fix this injustice.


#40

We are waiting. You have been on the site since this was asked.