White Privilege versus White Guilt


#41

Tiny, we’ve already had our disagreement about NBPP because you equate them with BPP. Anyway, my question is, ** when ** and why do you think black people started embracing thuggery and bad behavior generally? What percentage of black people embrace thuggery and bad behavior would you guess? Because, this has to jive with the number that are incarcerated if there isn’t racism, right? Wouldn’t you Voting Rights Act of 1965 was about fighting racism? So when exactly did black people started embracing thuggery and bad behavior? early 1900s? before wwii? after? 60s? 70s (early days of hip hop)? 80s? And how do you suppose black people start embracing thuggery and bad behavior? When did racism end? Who here would disagree racism existed during slavery? Anyone? Ok so when did racism against black people end? Anyone, feel free to answer any of these questions, especially those who believe majority of those in jail are blacks because, simply, blacks commit more crimes etc.


#42

By the way, please take pains to distinguish between hip hop genres, mainstream/not etc. Hip hop is a worldwide phenomenon for a reason. The crap that’s played on MSM does nothing but enforce racial stereotypes. This doesn’t change the fact that, the crap played on the radio doesn’t represent hip hop entirely. It really bothers me how only the garbage seems to turn up on MSM (in terms of many things for that matter). I believe, even Gangsta Rap has a legitimate purpose: to depict the life in the inner cities. But I would in no way use MSM’s version of Hip Hop (or whatever is mass marketed) as a gauge for hip hop. Tiny1, these one is for you. The lyrics are quite complicated and beautifully crafted as so is the music. I hope you enjoy them as I do.


#43

Who is “we”? Am I speaking to royalty?

The fact that I’ve looked at the subscription page doesn’t mean I’ve had time to comment. I had a lot of work to do last night. I don’t know what all can or should be done about racial inequality.


#44

Above and beyond your race mongering, people didn’t shy away because black skin bothers them, but because of the behavior of the black community. You cannot make people trust and/or accept you. You must earn that trust. If people shy from a black person’s hand, it is because they don’t trust that they will be straight with them.
Your ilk is perpetuating this problem. You claim that people don’t like to do business with a black person, because they are black. I contend that the behavior of the black community, is responsible. You address the symptom, while I focus on the problem.
Peoples’ perceptions are at issue, not the color of peoples’ skin. If people believe that they cannot trust dealing with a black person, it is because of their perception, not their bigotry. Maybe they buy into a stereotype. Maybe they were burned by a black person, before. The point is, you are trying to stir up racial tensions, instead of getting to the crux of the problem. If you look like a thug, and you value the Gangsta mentality, people will not trust you.
Sure, black families are less financially secure, but it may have something to do with the fact that 60% of black youth, come from fatherless homes. Kinda hard to function, and be successful, with only one household income. That is obvious. Couple that with the fact that only 42% of black students graduate with a degree. Those black students who received 4 year degrees, are competitively salaried, with white graduates. Once again, you address the sympton, not the problem.
Yanno, I have a similar problem. People are sometimes put off, by my appearance. I am extremely large, and wear many facial scars. I have been said to have a bikers looks. I have even been responsible for uncontrolled terror, from toddlers. If you saw me on a dark night, in a low lit area, I can almost guarantee, you would not be quick to approach me. This is because people perceive me to be a threat, because of my looks. It isn’t because people hate large people, or white people, or people with unpleasant features. It is because they perceive a possible threat.
You don’t think very highly of people, do you.


#45

The black community means black people in general. You’re mincing words, Tiny. It wasn’t because of their behavior that the “black sellers” in that study received fewer offers. Their behavior was exactly the same as the “white sellers” in the study. They got fewer offers simply because they were black and as you said, fewer people were willing to trust blacks. Therefore, if you are a black person trying to sell something in similar circumstances, you are going to be at an automatic disadvantage, not because of your behavior, but because of your skin color. You seem to be trying to blame them for the fact that they’re discriminated against, which is wrong.


#46

It wasn’t because of their behavior that the “black sellers” in that study received fewer offers. Their behavior was exactly the same as the “white sellers” in the study. They got fewer offers simply because they were black and as you said, fewer people were willing to trust blacks. Therefore, if you are a black person trying to sell something in similar circumstances, you are going to be at an automatic disadvantage, not because of your behavior, but because of your skin color.


#47

White privilege will end when, socially and legally speaking, our obsession with skin color ends. It will end when the skin worshipers stop worshiping skin. White privilege will end when people begin to listen to Dr. King’s dream and take it to heart, and it ain’t just privileged white folks who need to remember what he said.

[LEFT]I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.[/LEFT]


#48

I know that others are interested thus, the ‘we’ reference.

Please tell us [white people] what will it take to correct this injustice?


#49

Is that crickets that I hear?


#50

I answered that question days ago:


#51

I do. Let the government become color blind and continue promoting the idea that a man should be measured by the content of his character not the color of his skin. Let’s stop dwelling on race and encourage our friends and family to do the same.


#52

Thanks.


#53

, but do you see the same irony that I do in the bolded parts?..


#54

Shoot. I need to edit my statement.

I do. Let the government become color blind** while as individuals we **continue promoting the idea that a man should be measured by the content of his character not the color of his skin. Let’s stop dwelling on race and encourage our friends and family to do the same.


#55

Well, i certinaly don’t get any white rights. Infact in my area, and in getting into colleges minorities hold a pretty weighted card. I was taking the P.S.A.T.'s whne they anounced that black students could sign up for a special scholar ship program. Then when bubling the ethnicty the options were “latino” “other”. lol COME ON!


#56

White guilt is probably the best reason to explain why Obama won the 2008 presidential election. In this nation and in this world, some people are born privileged. That is, there are the poor and there are the rich. It’s been this way since the beginning of time and will probably stay that way till the end of time. Anyone can take the opportunity to become a successful person. It’s a process that you have to go through if you want to succeed.

I do not support white supremacy as much as I don’t support white guilt. People believed that by voting for the first African American president, the issue of racism in this country and the world would be over. They were utterly wrong. Racism is still prevalent and is worse then before the election. Liberals are the biggest racists, because their policies destroy black families through the abortion, which they are happy to give for free.


#57

That’s achieving the end result without the work needed to attain it. It would be nice if we could all set our differences aside, have nice discussions across the aisle, and put this silly “racism” and “sexism” junk behind us. But unfortunately, Americans have a remarkably lousy history of listening to others.

Black slaves were freed in the 1800’s, but didn’t have the same federally-protected rights as their white counterparts until the 1960s or so. The womens’ suffrage struggle also began in the 1800s, but didn’t end until the 1920s. The current acceptance struggle is with gender/sexual/romantic minorities (aka LGBT, but I don’t like using that term) and a lot of people within the movement are trying to just let acceptance magically rain from the sky. That’s why right now after about four decades, only 4 states allow gays to marry.

The only way real change can be brought, as evidenced by the civil rights and womens’ rights struggles, is with strong, concentrated leadership. Martin Luther King put a face to black rights, as did Malcom X to a lesser extent. Susan B. Anthony, Alice Paul, and Lucy Burns put a face to women’s suffrage and women’s rights. They all used their leadership to apply political and economic pressure to gain the rights that they (accurately) felt that they deserved. After years of blood, sweat, and tears, they won their rights.

Martin Luther King was shot and killed. Hundreds of his colleagues were harassed, beaten, or killed. Alice Paul was thrown in prison, beaten, and force-fed. Hundreds of her colleagues were harassed, beaten, raped, and killed. Gender/sexual/romantic minorities are routinely harassed, beaten, raped, and killed for their differences.

It would have been nice if Americans were more open-minded about the issues MLK and Alice Paul brought forth, but unfortunately things just don’t work that way here.


#58

[quote=“Zune, post:57, topic:34527”]
That’s achieving the end result without the work needed to attain it. It would be nice if we could all set our differences aside, have nice discussions across the aisle, and put this silly “racism” and “sexism” junk behind us. But unfortunately, Americans have a remarkably lousy history of listening to others.

Black slaves were freed in the 1800’s, but didn’t have the same federally-protected rights as their white counterparts until the 1960s or so. The womens’ suffrage struggle also began in the 1800s, but didn’t end until the 1920s. The current acceptance struggle is with gender/sexual/romantic minorities (aka LGBT, but I don’t like using that term) and a lot of people within the movement are trying to just let acceptance magically rain from the sky. That’s why right now after about four decades, only 4 states allow gays to marry.

The only way real change can be brought, as evidenced by the civil rights and womens’ rights struggles, is with strong, concentrated leadership. Martin Luther King put a face to black rights, as did Malcom X to a lesser extent. Susan B. Anthony, Alice Paul, and Lucy Burns put a face to women’s suffrage and women’s rights. They all used their leadership to apply political and economic pressure to gain the rights that they (accurately) felt that they deserved. After years of blood, sweat, and tears, they won their rights.

Martin Luther King was shot and killed. Hundreds of his colleagues were harassed, beaten, or killed. Alice Paul was thrown in prison, beaten, and force-fed. Hundreds of her colleagues were harassed, beaten, raped, and killed. Gender/sexual/romantic minorities are routinely harassed, beaten, raped, and killed for their differences.

It would have been nice if Americans were more open-minded about the issues MLK and Alice Paul brought forth, but unfortunately things just don’t work that way here.
[/quote]Leadership is not government. Leadership is individuals, MLK etc., standing up for their rights. Government is preservation of rights, prohibitions against killing, theft and so forth. If the government is doing this properly, that should be the end of its role in the matter. Individuals lead. Governments do not. You can have all the leadership you want and still be in perfect harmony with what I said. Let’s just hope that leadership stops with the idea that a man is measured by the content of his character rather pushing some pathetic government program to “set things right.”

I offer no “result” without the “work.” I suggested how we ought to be. So what are you quibbling over?


#59

Government in this issue is very much indeed “leadership”, and ensuring that I (a white person) cannot legally keep, trade, or use africans as slaves is a preservation of those africans’ rights as human beings. The same goes for states rights in this matter, as it wasn’t federal law that you cannot segregate your citizens by race until about a half century ago. Enacting this law and preserving this leadership was the very point of those civil rights struggles.

And as far as “setting things right” goes, there are minorities of people who are still treated remarkably poorly by society and there is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to minimize or eliminate this. The disabled are a great example: They are far better off than they were before as now most businesses are required by law to make their institutions handicapped accessible, but people still see differently-abled folks as being helpless, gross, or otherwise undesirable. Notice how many of your friends use the word “retarded” to mean “ridiculous”, or how mean in general they are to disabled folks. There’s still a ways to go for disabled acceptance, but at least they’re eons ahead of where they used to be because the government “set things right”.

As for folks who are black, I don’t know of a program by the government that specifically tries to set things right for them based on their race. But if it exists, I’m not to concerned about it as it doesn’t affect me. I’m white and (at least biologically) male. I already have all the rights, and those rights aren’t a zero-sum resource. Someone getting more rights isn’t going to give me less rights.


#60

There’s a great deal wrong with government (allegedly) trying to fix social problems. That’s what the Nazis did about the “Jewish problem.”