Why I'm voting for Clinton


#1

There are many reasons to oppose Trump. His understanding of complicated issues and policy is clearly very slight. His courting of Russia is already somewhat of a national embarrassment. His appeals to racist ressentiment. But what really doesn’t get discussed much is just how un-American are the values of both Trump and his campaign.

For example, there is Trump’s dictatorial “only I can solve these problems” rhetoric. This is not republican rhetoric. The essence of republicanism is the idea that what’s important in a country isn’t any one or group of individuals, but rather, a constitution creating limited institutions with robust checks and balances. Individuals of at least reasonable moral and intellectual character are interchangeable within these institutions. Trump’s “great leader” rhetoric is wildly unrepublican, and therefore, wildly un-American (in the sense that to be “American” is to be a little-r republican). Here’s a personal anecdote: my grandfather, now in his mid-90s, originally switched from the Democratic party to the Republican party because he thought FDR was “the closest thing to a dictator in American history.” He told me a few months ago that he was switching back to Democrat for the same reasons (i.e. Trump’s dictatorial and anti-republican rhetoric).


#2

What J. Anderson is really saying: I’m voting for Hillary Clinton because I’m fine with electing as the nation’s leader an enormously incompetent, sociopathic liar with lousy judgment who couldn’t qualify for a security clearance at a Pic-N-Save after exhibiting gross negligence by exposing government secrets on her illicit “home brew” server and who is the co-founder and head of what is very likely a criminal syndicate/personally very lucrative money laundering enterprise known as the Clinton Global Initiative.

Great post, J. Anderson

LMAO!!


#3

You bring up some good points, but there is one point you have omitted. If you reject Trump, you either support Hillary, who is just as bad as Trump, or you stand down. If Trump goes totally off the rails, I’ll stand down. If Trump is just crazy, and Hillary appears to be positioned for a landslide, I’ll vote for Trump. Hillary is a very bad candidate, and there is no way to get around that if you are honest or intelligent.


#4

Hitlery not only has no as in ZERO understanding of Foreign policy, but worse in her 4 years not only has she Epic Failed at the Job, but she has left a wake behind her of dead boides and a significantly increased radical Islam base of fighters and laid the foundation for Iran to obtain a Nuclear bomb. I’ll take Trump!

His courting of Russia is a smart move, they are a powerful nation and getting more so, best keep your enemies close. ANY good soldier from Pfc to General knows you have to understand your enemy. In addition Trump has never said (LIKE OBAMA) 'all we need to do is sit down and talk to them. Our current state of the world only shows the weakness and stupidity of Hitlery and Obama (and Kerry to). I’ll take Trump!

Of the TWO, Hitlery and Trump…“ONLY Trump can solve the problems”. Of the 2, I know this She CANNOT and WILL NOT solve the problems. I’ll take Trump!


#5

Can’t imagine Clinton is in any way better than Trump, but I agree with your assessment of Trump. I also wouldn’t think you’d support Clinton either – but perhaps you’re voting for the “lesser of two evils.” You live in a state, last that I was aware, where Clinton is already going to win. You should feel free to find a candidate you actually like if one exists and vote your conscience. The “lesser of two evils” argument is moot for many of us.


#6

Clinton’s very real corruption is of the sort that’s common to most politicians: pandering, pay for play, etc. She’s a status quo president, whose main contribution is likely to be a more aggressively militaristic and hawkish policy towards the middle-east. If you think she’s going to rock the boat on anything other than foreign policy, then you’re just not paying close attention. By contrast, I see Trump as a different animal: he’s essentially the end of traditional American politics in a new, more dictatorial and less republican direction.

Here’s something truly interesting: Trump is redefining “conservatism” in America from the traditional American concept–e.g. decentralization of power, anti-federalism, republicanism–towards a more traditionally European and Russian style of “conservatism”–e.g. centralized power around a charismatic and “strong” populist leader. Trump is, essentially, a throwback to European conservatism. This is why I am voting for Clinton: this sort of neo-fascism has to be stopped cold, now, in the hopes that traditional American conservatism can regain its feet.

Trump is the most philosophically anti-American president ever nominated to a major party ticket.


#7

Neither candidate understands any of the important issues, both candidates act as Dictators who are above the law, both candidates think the Constitution is just an annoying old document that should be burned, both candidates support Judicial Tyranny and both candidates are morally bankrupt liars.

If Clinton can be supported than so can Trump, one cannot choose between these two and simultaneously pretend to be standing on the high ground.


#8

Just a clarification, I’m using the word “republican” in its “little-r” sense, meaning “someone who believes in the values associated with a republic as a form of government.” Obviously, this means different things in different contexts; American “republican values” are different than, e.g., ancient greek “republican values.” This is opposed to the word “Republican” (big-R), which is specifically associated with the American political party. So, it’s not incoherent to say something like: “Republicans are unrepublican.”

Having said that, no self-respecting republican can look at this without cringing:

[ATTACH]2797[/ATTACH]

The dictatorial and fascist imagery is strikingly European in style. That’s a poster for a candidate of a major American political party folks.


#9

[quote=“J.Anderson, post:1, topic:49327”]
There are many reasons to oppose Trump. His understanding of complicated issues and policy is clearly very slight. His courting of Russia is already somewhat of a national embarrassment. His appeals to racist ressentiment. But what really doesn’t get discussed much is just how un-American are the values of both Trump and his campaign.

For example, there is Trump’s dictatorial “only I can solve these problems” rhetoric. This is not republican rhetoric. The essence of republicanism is the idea that what’s important in a country isn’t any one or group of individuals, but rather, a constitution creating limited institutions with robust checks and balances. Individuals of at least reasonable moral and intellectual character are interchangeable within these institutions. Trump’s “great leader” rhetoric is wildly unrepublican, and therefore, wildly un-American (in the sense that to be “American” is to be a little-r republican). Here’s a personal anecdote: my grandfather, now in his mid-90s, originally switched from the Democratic party to the Republican party because he thought FDR was “the closest thing to a dictator in American history.” He told me a few months ago that he was switching back to Democrat for the same reasons (i.e. Trump’s dictatorial and anti-republican rhetoric).
[/quote]All good reasons and part of the reasons I am going to vote for Shrillary. I cannot vote for someone who deliberately appeals to America’s worst rather than best instincts.

I hope she gets in with enough conservative support that she has to govern from the center.


#10

[quote=“MDMikeB, post:2, topic:49327”]
What J. Anderson is really saying: I’m voting for Hillary Clinton because I’m fine with electing as the nation’s leader an enormously incompetent, sociopathic liar with lousy judgment who couldn’t qualify for a security clearance at a Pic-N-Save after exhibiting gross negligence by exposing government secrets on her illicit “home brew” server and who is the co-founder and head of what is very likely a criminal syndicate/personally very lucrative money laundering enterprise known as the Clinton Global Initiative.LMAO!!
[/quote]What you are saying is you are fine with electing an arm-waving, eyeball-rolling demagogue.


#11

I’m stayin’ outta this one.

Arguing which of these two is better, is like arguing over whether McDonalds or Burger King has a better menu.

Like arguing Coke versus Pepsi. Starbucks versus Caribou Coffee.

A distinction without a difference.


#12

[quote=“J.Anderson, post:6, topic:49327”]
Clinton’s very real corruption is of the sort that’s common to most politicians: pandering, pay for play, etc. She’s a status quo president, whose main contribution is likely to be a more aggressively militaristic and hawkish policy towards the middle-east. If you think she’s going to rock the boat on anything other than foreign policy, then you’re just not paying close attention. By contrast, I see Trump as a different animal: he’s essentially the end of traditional American politics in a new, more dictatorial and less republican direction.
[/quote]I expected that of her. Then Bernie Sanders. Now she hates TPP and NAFTA. The Democrat “Kasich/Bush” won. The Democrat “Trump” didn’t win, but he’s certainly impacted her, and he’s just as disturbing as the Republican Trump. Will she become a different kind of animal? And make no mistake that she or others of her kind in both parties are harmless. They suck. We all know it. They’re the reason Trump and Sanders exist.

[quote=“J.Anderson, post:6, topic:49327”]
Here’s something truly interesting: Trump is redefining “conservatism” in America from the traditional American concept–e.g. decentralization of power, anti-federalism, republicanism–towards a more traditionally European and Russian style of “conservatism”–e.g. centralized power around a charismatic and “strong” populist leader. Trump is, essentially, a throwback to European conservatism.
[/quote]Indeed. Support for Trump is the most disturbing thing I hear from people I know who have always looked at centralized state power with suspicion. And it’s not just among conservatives and Republicans. I’ve heard at least one anarcho support Trump. You look around this site, and populist anti-capitalist, anti-free trade economics are all the rage among the Trump supporters.

[quote=“J.Anderson, post:6, topic:49327”]
This is why I am voting for Clinton: this sort of neo-fascism has to be stopped cold, now, in the hopes that traditional American conservatism can regain its feet.
[/quote]Then vote for a real conservative or something nearer classical liberalism or the socialist or whatever it is you like. Isn’t your state already going to do this for you? You don’t even have to make this choice. Your vote is not relevant in context of Clinton-Trump. Oppose both of them.


#13

Actually, it’s more like arguing about the difference between dog poop and cat poop.


#14

The 2nd amendment is the only issue that matters.

All of the others pale in comparison. We lose that, we lose everything.

I’m voting for Trump, because he SAYS he’ll support the 2nd Amendment. I expect he’ll be better than these other choices, but he’s still not who I wanted.
I’m used to that. I never get who I want.

So, IRT the 2A:
I know Johnson won’t support it. I know his VP won’t. I fully know that Klinton won’t.


#15

so what you’re saying is that you are a victim of right and left wing media propaganda. Thanks for siding against the rest of your fellow Americans. There is NOTHING that can justify voting for hIllary. NOTHING.


#16

I hear what you’re saying, DN - but WHY should it MATTER? The Bill of Rights were supposed to proved protection from EXACTLY this kind of deranged despot as you’re talking about. Yes, I know, as a practical matter, there’s the concern about SCOTUS appointees and law enforcement…

…but when the Courts reject a standing article or amendment to the Constitution, the only true recourse is to remove the lawless despot. When a President directs his/her Department of (in)Justice to ignore codified rights protected in the Constitution, it’s time for Impeachment - and trial for Treason.

We do not do that, and should have, and that’s why lawlessness and tyranny creep ever closer. We are looking to the wrong places to protect our rights - we’re expecting Orange Julius to do it, while we wait passively. We need to look TO OURSELVES - USE our elected representatives, like the tools they are, to REMOVE these tyrants and water the Tree of Liberty.


#17

You can’t use your HAHAHAH elected officials because they are in on it. IT IS UP TO US. RIGH OR WRONG…TAKE the power from the elites and we’ll go from there. WHERE is that spirit of rebellion that I have seen in you for ALL the years I have known you.

These elected reps are not gonna remove anybody least of all themselves. WAKE UP YOU GUYS. IT’s NOW or NEVER. Don’t you SEE THAT??!!


#18

For me it comes down to this:

Do you want border defense or do ya want 'em open?

Do you want to go after ISIS or you wanna let them go after us?

Do you wanna fear the BLM the next 4 years or not?

Do you want comprehensive healthcare reform or don’t you?

Do you want law and order in the streets or not?

Do you wanna write checks to baby killers or not?

Do you want weak domestic economics or not?

Do you want pay-to-play corruption or not?


#19

That is how I have voted all my life.

Bottom line folks is that no 2nd Amend, no Constitution, a lawless society and tyranny.

Taking away the 2nd Amend RIGHTS is easy. In fact we have already all but lost them. You can strike the words off the 2nd “shall not be infringed”. This goes back to pre WWII when the Govt made it illegal (with registration and paying a tax) to own a bad gun, Thompson 1928 SMG! This can be applied to all guns starting with the AR 15 and then just picking them off one at a time till you are down to a single shot rifle and shotgun.

Tax: Tax gun and ammo ownership to the point few can afford it.

Gun registration: We have it now and SUPPOSEDLY the information is only kept for one year…ANYONE who believes that is at best a fool.

Ask anyone who lives in Ca!

The 2nd Amend will never go away, but gun ownership will…

The govt knows there are 300 million + guns in the hands of Americans. Confiscation is EASY! And this is based upon Obamacare. In order to get Obamacare SCOTUS had to find a way and they did so by calling Obamacare a Tax and then they gave Congress UNLIMITED power to tax. The govt has records of when and where we bought guns. A far left POTUS and a Congress will simple place a tax on guns and do it by gun (AR 15, S&W Mdl 629, Rem 870 etc). Each tax is based upon how Congress sees the badness of the gun. An AR 15 has a $1000 buck tax and a single shot 22 rifle has a $25 buck tax.

How: Turn it over to the IRS for collection with the option of you turning it in for $100 bucks or so. Now you either pay a tax or turn in and don’t even try the story about you were out on your boat and lost them overboard. Any phony story will require extensive documentation (police reports, insurance submissions etc).


#20

Let’s not go all keyboard warrior please.