Zinns of Omission


#21

Frankly. Either you’re bs’ing us or you really don’t know what you’re talking about. Did last casas take part in a bloody conquest of Cuba? Did he receive Indian serfs as part of his privileges when becoming Dominican.
Maybe you better check up on that.


#22

Again, I don’t see you denying anything else I’ve brought up about Columbus. I think you’re aware it’s true, and you’re just trying to bury it.

He was Incompetent as a leader, a bad navigator, and stole from his own men. Like I said; you can’t name anything worthy of merit about him.

Your desire to celebrate him, is simply inertia from the flat-earth myth. Before the 1830s, Americans didn’t give a crap about him.

And he wrote on the massacre, and condemned the Spaniards as butchers, especially for Caonao.

3,000 people greeted them with food and baskets, and the Spaniards simply gutted them and chased them into the hills.

That’s what provoked him to think “Hey, maybe Christ wouldn’t sanction this.” After reading from Ecclesiasticus, he also gave up his Slaves, and demanded other Spaniards did the same.

Where did Columbus ever have this thought?


#23

Whether you like it or not, he has always been given the credit for the discovery of the new world. I didn’t have a thing to do with that. it was a different time and things were done differently and other things were acceptable to the catholic church in their quest for riches and exploitation of new lands.

It doesn’t alter the fact that he was very brave, because ocean voyages of this nature were very trecherous. Your delicate sensibilities regarding what you were taught are not mine. History is full of stories of this nature. Next I suppose you’re going to give us a lesson on George Washington. or perhaps that Benghazi matter

Main thing is…what does it matter at this point. :wink:


#24

more:


#25

but you really like this version. Note the source. at very bottom of page. zinn.


#26

That was Leif Erikson; we uncovered Vinland in the 1980s. He got here first.

So… what did Columbus actually do?

Oh bull crap. A Papal bull that is:

Columbus denied baptism to Native Americans for the very reason he didn’t want them treated as humans.

Guess what the churchmen with him said to that Caroline?

Yet you still don’t deny it.

He stole from his own men, he lead the colony to ruin (and was arrested), he thought the world was pear shaped.

You can’t deny any of this, can you, Caroline? Because you know it’s true.


#27

So what. I dare say YOU will be judged pretty harshly by “historians” 400 years hence if your writings here survive.


#28

Cept, Not a historian, someone who was there.

What part of that did you not get Dave?

To that end. Columbus denying Baptism to Indians, so as to keep them as slaves. I’m pretty sure you have no way of defending this. Churchmen with him, at the time, called this wrong. He did it anyway.

If they can judge him as wrong, why can’t I?


#29

We’re here and we judge YOU as wrong most of the time.


#30

Not seeing any denial here about what Columbus did.

It’s just more deflection, and more excuses.

Everytime you resort to personal attacks, I know you no longer have an argument Dave.


#31

you and I well know that history is written by whom the left chooses to record.


#32

IF he indeed did all those things with no embellishment then that was a terrible thing. But in the Vast picture of things it is nothing. It is done. Atrocities were committed by mostly everyone except independent Baptists. You want to harp on Columbus…and yet you let Bobadilla and las casas slip away into saintly behavior. YOU pick and choose and want to ram it down our throats.

I’m celebrating Columbus Day. GOT IT. I won’t be stopping. Matter of fact i’ll be doing it specifically to push back against the lies of Zinn. You go ahead and celebrate Bartolomeo day. and good luck wit dat.

and let me say this dude. you are a true leftist. you harp and harp and hammer and hammer on this till you get your way and believe me you may wear some down with your inane ridiculous goings on about th,. but not me…and apparently not some of the others on here. You are the product of what the left clearly wants to do with their revision of history.


#33

Contact

Media Kit for Worthy by Carla G. Harper

Schedule Carla G. Harper for a “Worthy Talk”

Was Columbus really a bad guy?

October 8, 2016 by Carla Harper

In the fourth grade, my daughter asked me one day after school, “Mom, was Christopher Columbus really a bad guy?”

It’s a moment emblazoned in my mind. She’d not heard, “In 1492 Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue.” She didn’t know who or what the Santa Maria, Nina, and Pinta were either.

Columbus Day (October 10) was once a big deal in America.

Judgement of Columbus is best formed from historical facts based on his writings and the writings of those who lived at the time. Context of the times is also important.

Western civilization was in a free fall. The Black Death (bubonic plague) had taken up to a third of the population in some area; none were untouched. The reformation movement was underway in response to the church becoming corrupt in many ways. The Muslim world was on the attack with sites set on overtaking Europe.

The facts of Columbus’ life and the mystery surrounding how he actually got to the New World will lead most to conclude that history and the lives of those who make history are not orchestrated by humans.

Who was Christopher Columbus?

Christopher Columbus was an explorer and navigator born in 1451, in Genoa (Italy), the son of a weaver. He died in 1506. In a lifelong pursuit to discover a direct water route west from Europe to Asia, he accidentally stumbled upon the Americas.

Christopher Columbus had an insane vision in his heart that formed when he was very young. He attributed that vision to God. It propelled him through many hardships, failures, and several near death experiences. His life was not one of fame and grandeur.

He believed it was possible to reach the East by sailing west.

Columbus made his way from Genoa to Lisbon, Portugal as a boy. In those days, the Portuguese led the world in ocean exploration. Young Columbus became an apprentice to a map maker. He showed amazing aptitude.

He began seeking a sponsor to make his experimental voyage in 1484. He was scorned, called foolish and insane to cross the empty Atlantic. Seven times he presented the proposal and each time he was denied. He traveled across Europe penniless and alone.

Columbus made his last presentation in 1491 before Isabella and Ferdinand of Spain. They told him no and not to come back. They were busy fighting off the Muslim armies. Defeated, he left for France to rejoin his son.

One day into the journey, Queen Isabella’s men chased him down. She had, for some unknown reason, changed her mind.

On August 3, 1492, Columbus and his crew sailed the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria from the Canary Islands, 700 miles from the Iberian Peninsula.

Ironically, the Canary Islands were the only major Spanish possession in the Atlantic, and those islands were the only spot in the region that would allow the ships to catch the Northeast trade winds.

Only the Northeast trade winds could have taken Columbus to the Americas.

On October 12, 1492, Columbus and his men landed in the Caribbean. They called the island San Salvador, which means Saint Savior.

The journey was horrible, with many threats of mutiny from the men. His wits, perseverance and belief in a calling to sail the oceans in search of this route resulted in his name becoming synonymous with salvation of the Old World (Europe) by opening the New World (America, Canada, Mexico, etc.) to civilization.


From Diary of Christopher Columbus

“It was the lord who put it into my mind – I could feel his hand upon me – the fact that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies.

All who heard of my project rejected it with laughter, ridiculing me. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Sprit, because he comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the holy scriptures.

For the execution of the journey to the Indies, I did not make use of intelligence, mathematics or maps. It is simply the fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied.”

Was Christopher Columbus a bad guy, and was his discovery of the route to America bad?

Christopher Columbus made four trips across the Atlantic Ocean from Spain: in 1492, 1493, 1498 and 1502.

According to first-hand accounts, including his own diary, initial contact with the natives resulted in exchange of gifts and mutual admiration.

The Europeans and the natives were surely like aliens to each other in every way. But Columbus was not a perpetrator of any crime or disrespect to the people.

Two things eventually happened that led to death and bad blood between the natives and Spaniards that would follow in Columbus’ wake.

Disease, primarily small pox, killed many natives. Europeans unwittingly brought the disease to a people with no immunity. Conversely, the natives introduced to Europeans a new disease called Syphilis.

The Spaniards looked upon the bounty of the New World’s riches as theirs for the taking with little regard for the existing cultures. They followed in Columbus’ footsteps seeking gold and silver.

There are many great stories of how the natives fought back and won in many cases against the Spanish. If you read further into history, you’ll find that the Spanish approach to conquering failed. What succeeded was community building by way of colonization, another approach taken a years later by the British, followed by the French and Dutch.

Columbus is not a bad guy or a good guy. He played his particular role in history.

Read monthly WORTHY THOUGHTS at www.carlagharper.com. Sign Up at the Contact page here.

http://www.carlagharper.com/uncategorized/was-columbus-really-a-bad-guy/


#34

Keep digging, AS. You are proving to all of us that you are a closet progressive with respect to this site. You mouth all of the points that the young socialists have used for years. You are in a big socialist hole now, and few will take you “conservative” posts as creditable.

You are welcome here as a liberal voice, but as a conservative voice, you are toast. Be honest about what you are.

As for your claim that Columbus was a “bad navigator” you are way off on that one. Historians agree, except the Marxist ones, of course, that he had a great for “dead reckoning” which met that he a tremendous sense of direction. He was able get the surviving members of his crew home.


#35

Keep being lazy Send. You got it wrong, again, because you did no research.

You thought De Lasas casas was an historian, but in fact, he was a witness.

And on top of that, he’s the one who transcribed Columbus’ journals.

And you didn’t know this, and you still tried to preach to me about him.

You knew literally nothing about him, and you tried to preach.

The gall of some people…


#36

And we don’t celebrate people who commit atrocities.

Hernán Cortés is not a hero; ergo, Columbus is not a hero. As again, you can’t seem to name to me anything that made him “heroic”.

He didn’t discover America (Leif. Erikson.), and he didn’t prove the world was round (the Greeks did that over 1500 years before him).

Those are the only points that make him famous, and they’re both false. Meaning the only thing we have to judge Columbus by, are the atrocities, his bad theories, and his greed.

So what now Caroline?

Because Columbus wasn’t apologetic. He never changed his tune.

George Washington is not the same as Jefferson Davis, because he condemned slavery and freed his slaves.

Yes Caroline, actions which demonstrate an evolving conscience make a difference. I’m pretty sure you understand this.

Says the person that tried to tell me the Catholic Church approved what happened, when they in reality condemned it, and sent priests into the new world with edicts to stop it.

They are the only ones here who come out looking like heroes. You didn’t know that, because you don’t care about this period in history.

You can’t pretend with me Caroline, this is just another wedge issue to you in your tribal polemics.
To me, this is history about my faith that I see true bozos like you get wrong. Because you never tried to learn it.

The cliff notes, that’s all you’ve ever looked at.


#37

No. Not lazy. I read a book several years ago that covered the issue. You can discredit the book, but I was not lazy. I’ll have find the title, but I was not lazy.


#38

Well he’s my hero, well maybe not hero but I admire his accomplishments. He may have been motivated by money (who isn’t?) but he destroyed the ruling Aztec savages and brought missionaries to convert the people.


#39

Oh I’m sorry, are you not the same person who spent two years telling me Nancy Pelosi vocally supported guest worker programs “just Like you do Slim!”, only for that BS to be trounced when I showed she not only once, but twice voted down measures on it brought into Congress by Republicans?

Making stuff up to boost your argument? The actions of complacent people, too self-assured to make an effort.

Oh and Send? It’s so nice that you studied English history; but y’know what I studied? Pre-Columbian history. Taught by an actual Apache talking **** about the Catholic Church, who I challenged every single God ***** day I was there. The rest of the class absolutely hated me.

To her credit, she gave me an “A”.


#40

oh you can stop RIGHT THERE. We don’t celebrate people who commit atrocities!! It is NOT THE RIGHT that wears the Che Tee shirts. It is not the right that wants to put Hilliary in the white house in spite of her actions regarding the Benghazi FOUR. How many people have died because of Obama and his Attorney general’s actions in sending guns to mexico. It wasn’t the right wing media that lionized and defended Stalin. I can go on…shall I.